The following is a transcript of an online debate between me and someone who works at a medical center and is either a nutritionist or has great respect for the advice they dole out. This should give you an idea of what sick people are being told about diet. My mom received the same advice from a nutrionist, but between my lectures and the books by Drs. Eades & Eades, she was persuaded otherwise.
Nutritionist comments are in italics, mine are plain text.
it’s not wise to cut grains out completely. your body needs varieties of different foods, grain included.
Humans lived without grains for 99% of their time on earth. Many native cultures still live without eating grains, which require processing to be edible. On what are you basing your claim that it’s “not wise” to cut out grains completely? (I have, and all that’s happened is several ailments have gone away.)
well good for your individual results. humans have been eating grains for at least 10,000 years, some evidence found it going way further back. granted it only seems like a blink of the eye, but it a significant amount of time nonetheless.
basically you need carbs to function. you need them for your brain and also to exercise. i’m not saying go out and eat a bunch of white bleached and enriched bread, just eat healthy grains.
Evolution doesn’t work that quickly. Some humans have adapted to grains, but many have not. No humans NEED grains to be healthy, and grains can have negative effects on health. The lectins in grains can lead to autoimmune diseases, to name just one. Nor do we need carbohydrates to exercise (I exercise frequently) or for brain function (I write, do standup comedy, and program software all without benefit of carbohydrates other than vegetables). Look up gluconeogenesis.
you actually do need carbs for lots of things, including the central nervous system, the kidneys, brain and muscles (including the heart). you need it cause it’s your main source of energy. without carbs your body will consume protein from your muscles. you also get carbs from fruit and veggies. and again, i’m not saying go eat a bunch of refined carbs, but brown rice, whole grain pasta, and multigrain breads should be a moderate part of your diet.
With all due respect, you’re simply stating an opinion with no facts to back it up. If you consume enough fat and protein, your body will not digest your muscles. I’ve gained quite a bit of muscle since cutting carbs. Carbs are the “main source of energy” as a matter of convenience in grain-growing societies, not as a biological necessity. Most of your body will happily burn fat for fuel — that’s why your body stores energy as fat. (Kind of makes sense, doesn’t it?)
your body will burn muscle and fat as a last resort, it’s a survival mechanism. and with all due respect, you don’t know my educational background, therefore are not qualified to call my opinion just that. an opinion, and with no facts nonetheless. i don’t know if you’re promoting this film for someone or if it’s your film, but arguing on youtube is not a good way to endorse a product.
What is your scientific basis for the “last resort” theory? Without fat or protein, you’ll die. Without carbs, you’ll live just fine, as many hunting and fishing tribes throughout history did. My ancestors lived in Ireland. Pre-agriculture, how did they manage to get all that “essential” carbohydrate? No potatoes, no grain farming, no wild fruits or vegetables except in season. The idea that we evolved to “need” grains and starches a mere few thousand years later is absurd.
it’s a well known medical fact in the order in which the body burns its resources. first carbs, then fat, then muscle. therefore, it’s a last resort. if you didn’t know that then i suggest you take a nutrition class.
Let’s see … biologically, we evolved to “need” foods that are new to the human diet, that were mostly unavailable before agriculture and transportation, and require extensive processing to be edible. (Try plucking wheat and eating it.) But the foods that were abundant and can be eaten immediately and raw — game meats and fish — are “last resort” sources of fuel, and our bodies chose a “last resort” form of storing calories, a.k.a. fat. Wow, evolution is strange indeed.
We burn carbs first to avoid the biological emergency of high blood sugar, which is toxic — therefore, it’s a survival mechanism — not because carbs are the body’s preferred fuel. If you didn’t know that, I suggest you take a biochemistry class.
[NOTE: It occurred to me later that our bodies will burn alcohol before anything else. According to the nutritionist’s logic, that makes alcohol our preferred fuel. All in favor a 60% alcohol diet, raise your hands.]
funny, i always though eating meat raw was dangerous as well. believe what you must, but stop telling everyone to alter their diet when you’re obviously not a doctor nor a nutritionist.
Your lack of knowledge is becoming more apparent. Eating a fresh kill isn’t dangerous, and humans did it for ages. Bear Grylls does it on Man vs. Wild and lives to tell. Cooking provided an advantage by allowing meat to be kept longer without spoiling.
No, I’m not a doctor or a nutritionist, which is why I don’t offer lousy, unscientific, because-my-nutrition-textbook-said-so advice such as “you need grains.” (Works for doctors … then they can prescribe arthritis drugs.)
“No, I’m not a doctor or a nutritionist” then stop pretending you know what people need. what works for you may not work for someone else.
Gosh, yes, because only a doctor — who is trained to prescribe drugs and spends a scant few hours in nutrition classes during all of medical school — can talk intelligently about nutrition. Certainly people who merely read dozens of books and hundreds of academic papers and regularly interview researchers aren’t qualified. As for not telling other people what to eat, you’re the one who felt compelled to encourage people to eat grains — which will make many of them ill.
but a nutritionist is specifically trained to be able to tell certain people how they should eat, unlike you who bunch everyone together and say no grain for you. asians are the healthiest people on earth, what is one of the staples in their diet? rice. hello. it’s a grain. if you would pay attention to what i said at the beginning you would understand that i’m not saying people should eat refined carbs, but veggies, fruits and beans, and whole wheat are needed in your diet.
Nutritionists are trained to follow the food pyramid, which isn’t based on science. It’s based on the USDA’s desire to sell grains.
Rice is the least problematic grain, but can still cause blood-sugar spikes for people whose ancestors didn’t come from rice-eating areas. Nobody “needs” rice or especially whole wheat, which can be disastrous. Read Loren Cordain’s paper on grains, lectins and diseases or Dr. William Davis’ posts on wheat … then tell me we need whole wheat.
they do not only follow the food pyramid, they use common sense. you wouldn’t give everyone 6-7 servings of grain. the USDA isn’t out to get us, neither are the majority of doctors and by encouraging people by saying eating tons of fast food isn’t bad for you is ridiculous. come work where i do at a dialysis center for one day and you’ll figure out why.
It isn’t common sense to promote a food pyramid with a base built on a food — grains — that cause health problems for many people. It isn’t common sense to tell people in a population where insulin resistance is rampant to consume 300 carbs per day. That’s partly why dialysis centers are necessary.
High blood sugar damages kidneys. High-carb diets spike blood sugar. The last thing people with kidney problems need is advice from carb-promoting nutritionists.
dialysis patients don’t need to limit grains, and some are encouraged because they need to gain weight. however, because of levels of phosphorus, whole wheat shouldn’t be consumed. but they’re encouraged to eat white, rye and sourdough bread. continue to argue if you must. it’s not the way to win customers.
So you encourage dialysis patients to eat white bread, a sure-fire way to spike blood sugar?!! Lord help us. Business must be booming.
white bread doesn’t have as much phosphorus, therefore better for them then whole wheat. again, don’t try to understand something you have no education in.
I see … because “don’t eat bread or other foods that raise your blood sugar” would kill them outright.
High blood sugar damages kidneys. White bread spikes blood sugar. Which part of this equation am I failing to understand because I did’t attend nutritionist school?
too much carbohydrates can result in high blood sugar levels, and too little can result in low blood sugar levels. you need to go to your nutritionist to see the amount you need. dialysis patients can’t eat a lot of foods as it is, so moderately eating white bread is needed to keep their weight up. that’s what you’re failing to understand.
Well, that make sense. After damaging their kidneys with foods that spike blood sugar, dialysis patients need white bread to raise their blood sugar and keep their weight up. And this therefore proves your original contention that all humans require grains in their diets, especially the whole grains that dialysis patients can’t eat because it would further damage their kidneys.
I stand corrected.
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Barry Groves had a similar encounter of the third kind years ago. You can read about it here: http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/why-eat-5-portions-1.html Third paragraph from the top…
Glad you posted this youtube discussion Tom. I have the same problem with close minded people in New Zealand. Plenty of my close friends have listened to my advice on low carb eating, and you know what it is that convinces them to change for good? They feel amazing! More energy, burn body fat, don’t get sick, sleep better etc etc. However, my mothers generation seem to have an ‘ALWAYS TRUST THE DOCTOR’ policy whereby you must never listen to someone who challenges our new low fat diet.
My uncle has now got heart disease so my mum looks at the cream that he uses in his coffee and not the copious amounts of sugar he consumes. Us New Zealanders seem to be stupid. We look at the unhealthiest nation on earth (USA) and listen to their health advice.
This whole ‘Fat causes Heart disease bull%@#$’ is supported by what? Simple, what nations eat a lot of Fat?.. and do they get heart disease?.. Hmmmm… Don’t fry your brain because it’s much easier to simply say “Yes Doctor!”
Thanks Tom, just venting a bit 🙂
Vent away. As Gary Taubes said, German and Austrian researchers figured out the fat-accumulation process in the 1930s, but when their work was mostly lost during WWII, American scientists came along afterwards and screwed up big-time with their own misguided theories. So in a way, Hitler is responsible for the obesity and diabetes epidemics.
For me, eating those “healthy/necessary” grains resulted in diabetes, high blood pressure and an apparent “lack of medications”. No grains = no medications, no extremely dry skin, no dandruff, no fibromyalgia, no knee or back problems, no IBS/excessive flatulence, no restless legs and no migraines and darn close to normal blood sugar.
I gave in to my sisters’ insistence to “just forget about it just this once” on my birthday and ended up with a 1 hour blood glucose of 179 and a day and a half in bed with stomach problems and a migraine (the other half day was spent in the bathroom). And no, it wasn’t just the sugar in that 1 slice of cake, because I still have 1 tsp of sugar in coffee occasionally and a piece of very dark chocolate with no such problems.
If grains are so flippin’ necessary, why am I so much healthier and happier without them?? For me, experience tops book learnin’ by a mile.
I’ll take grains before starvation, which is the choice some populations face. But anyone who thinks grains are health food hasn’t done much research.
>> My half-brother is a doctor with a specialty in nutrition, and he can’t control his own weight–nor can most medical people I see.
I totally agree. It really cracked me up when our local doctor advised my wife and me to not eat super low-carbs, considering that she is at least 50lbs overweight.
I see SO many doctors/nurses that are fat, drink frequently, and even smoke. Not that they should live like monks, but it’s a bit hard to take nutritional advice from people in horrible physical condition.
Sally Fallon and Mary Enig on grains:
http://www.westonaprice.org/food-features/497-be-kind-to-your-grains-and-your-grains-will-be-kind-to-you.html
On the rare occasions my wife puts oats or barely in a dessert dish for the girls, she now prepares them as Dr. Price suggested.
I had a very similar conversation with a guy I know. It turns out he was an ‘expert’ because he lived with a dietitian for 6 years. This is like being an expert in physics because you used to live with an astrologist.
LOL.
Oh my Tom, you do have the patience of a saint!
On the ‘preferred fuel’ point, the body with burn alcohol before anything else, is alcohol the preferred fuel of the body? Break out the jameson!
Well no.. alcohol is toxic, so the body prioritizes what it’s clearing from the bloodstream. High blood sugar is the same, couldn’t be that sugar in the blood is toxic and corrosive and needs to be cleared asap could it?
Really Tom, these people aren’t worth your time..
Exactly. We’re geared to keep blood sugar in a very narrow range and will do so even if it means pumping out high levels of insulin, accumulating unnecessary fat, etc.
“All in favor a 60% alcohol diet, raise your hands.”
As I read this, I felt my right hand, all on its own, start to rise up….
Nothing is a better measure of how well read and intelligent a person is than their grammar, even in a somewhat informal setting. If someone can’t be bothered to capitalize the first word of their sentences, it makes me doubt that they even realize how that looks. I know that if I was trying to change someone’s mind and argue with them in an academic way, I’d want to demonstrate that I at least passed first grade first and then move on to more difficult subjects.
Everyone in your comments has used proper grammar, but the one person trying to convince you doesn’t. Says something, IMHO.
Not bothering to use the SHIFT key certainly doesn’t make much of a first impression.
I was diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes three weeks ago, and my fasting blood sugar was 195. My doctor told me, “Eat grains in moderation!” as I left the office, but I was, by coincidence, reading Sisson’s book that particular week. I’ve ignored my doctor’s advice, and my fasting blood sugar was 105 this morning. I’m appalled at the level of ignorance displayed by doctors and nutritionists. I’m convinced on some level that they’re trying to push pills and/or thin the herd, so to speak.
That’s a very encouraging drop. Ignore the doctor, listen to Mark Sisson, and you may avoid needing medication for life. I presume you’ve already read or ordered Dr. Bernstein’s book on diabetes:
http://www.amazon.com/Dr-Bernsteins-Diabetes-Solution-Achieving/dp/0316099066
“[NOTE: It occurred to me later that our bodies will burn alcohol before anything else. According to the nutritionist’s logic, that makes alcohol our preferred fuel. All in favor a 60% alcohol diet, raise your hands.]”
This was si full os epic WIN that it will last me a month.
Thank you Tom for the awesome work. 😀
Thanks for reading.
It’s pretty clear, from her use of language, (and punctuation) that this person is not what I’d call well educated.
It’s hard to take her seriously.
He or she may have been typing in furious-rebuttal mode. I also wonder about people who are too angry to use the SHIFT key, though.
Dieticians are bad enough — prescribing bread, jam, orange juice and high caffeine coffee for a Diabetic Breakfast.
But — how do you deal with doctors who insist high carb, high grain intake is a must — also for diabetics? How do you find medical attention from a thinking human?
Jimmy Moore has been compiling a list of low-carb doctors for that purpose. I haven’t needed a doctor in the year since we’ve moved to Tennessee, but there is one in the area who belongs to the Weston A. Price Foundation. That would be my choice.
Just a PS on the “nutritionist” vs “dietician” issue. Anyone can call themselves a “nutritionist.” Most states have no regulation on the usage, only on giving out “professional” advice (I’m guessing that means “for pay”).
http://www.riversideonline.com/health_reference/Diet-Nutrition/AN00987.cfm
Suggested debate signature: Tom Naughton – Filmographer, Code Monkey, Nutritionist
Just a thought… =)
I’ll be darned. Next time I get into one of these debates, I’ll have to inform the other party I’m a nutritionist.
absolutely terrific post. Sums up much of what i often spend too much time and energy trying to convey to people.
I’ve had a few of these by now as well, unfortunately sometimes with people who I respect and care about. It can be a tough argument to have.
I’m currently right at the point where I’m deciding what actual direction I should take with my further education. Currently just auditing an Outdoor Education course, which is the field I’d eventually like to work in, but to get there it may be best to get a general associate’s degree in physical education. Perhaps I should do so and concentrate on Outdoor Education and Sports Nutrition, the nutrition if nothing else to gain a little “street cred.”
“See, I’m well-educated in the field of nutrition. It was my primary concentration in working towards my degree. I know what I’m talking about, particularly when I say that the field of nutrition is full of crap.”
There are times I regret not going to medical school for exactly that reason. The MD might sway more people.
Every profession has a lot of trained monkeys. In my own chosen profession, I see a lot of people who have learned a skill and practice it with a strong faith akin to fervent religion but lacking any critical thinking. So is medicine and nutrition. My doctor seemed horrified when I told him I started eating eggs again. I frequently come across “nutrition experts” regurgitating the same old information. Despite their “education”, I find them utterly clueless of even stuff I have picked up in the last two years.
It makes me very angry to have received really bad nutrition advice and seen its effect on my health. Unfortunately, this whole generation has to die before this widely held whole-grains-are-good-for-you belief can be uprooted.
Science progresses one funeral at a time. — Max Planck
For me, eating those “healthy/necessary” grains resulted in diabetes, high blood pressure and an apparent “lack of medications”. No grains = no medications, no extremely dry skin, no dandruff, no fibromyalgia, no knee or back problems, no IBS/excessive flatulence, no restless legs and no migraines and darn close to normal blood sugar.
I gave in to my sisters’ insistence to “just forget about it just this once” on my birthday and ended up with a 1 hour blood glucose of 179 and a day and a half in bed with stomach problems and a migraine (the other half day was spent in the bathroom). And no, it wasn’t just the sugar in that 1 slice of cake, because I still have 1 tsp of sugar in coffee occasionally and a piece of very dark chocolate with no such problems.
If grains are so flippin’ necessary, why am I so much healthier and happier without them?? For me, experience tops book learnin’ by a mile.
I’ll take grains before starvation, which is the choice some populations face. But anyone who thinks grains are health food hasn’t done much research.
Tom, worth checking out, another excellent refutation of the slowly dying cholesterol theory:
http://www.imt.ie/clinical/2010/09/ldl-c-the-other-good-cholesterol.html
Outstanding. I’ll be happy when the cholesterol theory begins dying quickly instead of slowly.
Whenever I have the same conversation with someone, they are invariable equating carbs with glucose, not realizing the difference. Yes you do need some glucose to function properly, you just don’t have to get it from carbs. It is a distinction that they find difficult to understand.
Indeed, and they get it wrong on two counts: 1) We don’t need nearly as much glucose as they believe, since the body will happily shift to fat or ketones for many functions, 2) We can make the necessary glucose from protein and even from fat to a small extent.
I was in stitches! Thanks for this Tom. Awesome!
I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. Of course I’ve had many, many conversations like this. To be honest, at this point I don’t usually bother. I’ve found that in the vast majority of cases, it’s a waste of time and energy. I’ll save my breath for people who are open-minded and capable of reason.
I don’t expect to change the nutritionist’s mind either. But I feel a need to refute such nonsense for the benefit of people who stumble across the online debates.
Let me count the ways this knob is wrong:
“it’s not wise” Argument by assertion.
“you need carbs to function” Argument by assertion.
“you actually do need carbs for lots of things” Argument by assertion.
“your body will burn muscle and fat as a last resort” Argument by assertion.
“‘No, I’m not a doctor or a nutritionist’ then stop pretending you know what people need” Appeal to authority.
“a nutritionist is specifically trained” Appeal to authority.
“rice. hello. it’s a grain” False equivalence. Not all grains are rice.
“come work where i do” Appeal to authority.
“dialysis patients don’t need to limit grains” Argument by assertion.
“don’t try to understand something you have no education in.” Appeal to authority.
“you need to go to your nutritionist to see the amount you need” Appeal to authority.
Okay, I see lots of assertions, lots of appeals to authority, and one false equivalence. That’s pretty pathetic.
Welcome to the world of nutrition “science.”
“All in favor a 60% alcohol diet, raise your hands.”
As I read this, I felt my right hand, all on its own, start to rise up….
Don’t feel to bad about not being “certified”, it’s really not that hard. I had read “Personal Nutrition” by Boyle and Whiney in a nutrition class I flunked (it was actually more of a food politics class which bored the be-jeezus out of me) who had a story about how easy it is.
It seems Victor Herber (M.D.,chairman of Medicine,Hahnemann University) managed to get his cat certified at the “International Academy of Nutritional Consultants” and his dog certified at “American Association of Nutrition & Dietary Consultants”. Be at ease, the author assured us they had no intention of practicing LOL!
Joseph Brandenburg pulled a similar stunt and got his dog certified as a personal trainer.
[NOTE: It occurred to me later that our bodies will burn alcohol before anything else. According to the nutritionist’s logic, that makes alcohol our preferred fuel. All in favor a 60% alcohol diet, raise your hands.]
Both of my hands are up high!!
This probably means the diet I was consuming in my mid 20’s was correct. But, at 56, I think I may have “dieted” a bit too much.
I had read somewhere, that the body is designed to get you to the age of 40 (40 probably being a good lifespan at one time), so that you can reproduce. After that it’s pretty much done with you. You are no longer bullet proof and all hell breaks loose on your system.
The author of “13 Things That Don’t Make Sense” (fascinating book on science) says much the same thing. At one time, the prevailing belief was that Nature set out to kill you after age 40 so you wouldn’t be a burden to the tribe. This author says your Nature doesn’t try to kill you, but really doesn’t care if you live or die after breeding age.
I was diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes three weeks ago, and my fasting blood sugar was 195. My doctor told me, “Eat grains in moderation!” as I left the office, but I was, by coincidence, reading Sisson’s book that particular week. I’ve ignored my doctor’s advice, and my fasting blood sugar was 105 this morning. I’m appalled at the level of ignorance displayed by doctors and nutritionists. I’m convinced on some level that they’re trying to push pills and/or thin the herd, so to speak.
That’s a very encouraging drop. Ignore the doctor, listen to Mark Sisson, and you may avoid needing medication for life. I presume you’ve already read or ordered Dr. Bernstein’s book on diabetes:
http://www.amazon.com/Dr-Bernsteins-Diabetes-Solution-Achieving/dp/0316099066
What makes me want to smack this person is the utter inability to acknowledge that if “you need carbs to function” then how have those of us in the growing community of sane people managed to stay alive? It’s not just a “well that works for you’ thing.
There are a LOT of us who have given up grains entirely. Some people are living VLC and LC and thriving! (I, myself, have been Lacto-Paleo for 3 years. I gave up all grains, sugar, and starches and eat meat, fat, a few veg, and a tiny bit of dairy. I’ve lost 150lbs and am healthier than I’ve ever been in my life at 45!)
If “fruits, beans and whole wheat are needed in your diet’ (none of which I eat) then why aren’t I dead? Or sick? Why aren’t you, Tom? Waitaminit … are you a ZOMBIE? ;p
This blog is being maintained by an artificial-intelligence writing program I created before my grain-free diet killed me.
Haha. Some points.
1. She said they get them to eat grains when they want them to put on weight.
2. She loves trying to tell you you’re an uneducated fool as a way to claim she is right
3. Apparently everyone needs to see a nutritionist to find out how much sugar they should be eating. Man how did we survive for the last two million years!!!! Staggering.
4. You mention two doctors who agree with you but she doesn’t say a thing.
Fair bit of cognitive dissonance happening there, I’d say.
It’s pretty clear, from her use of language, (and punctuation) that this person is not what I’d call well educated.
It’s hard to take her seriously.
He or she may have been typing in furious-rebuttal mode. I also wonder about people who are too angry to use the SHIFT key, though.
Dieticians are bad enough — prescribing bread, jam, orange juice and high caffeine coffee for a Diabetic Breakfast.
But — how do you deal with doctors who insist high carb, high grain intake is a must — also for diabetics? How do you find medical attention from a thinking human?
Jimmy Moore has been compiling a list of low-carb doctors for that purpose. I haven’t needed a doctor in the year since we’ve moved to Tennessee, but there is one in the area who belongs to the Weston A. Price Foundation. That would be my choice.
After some recent blood work, my doctor told me to cut back on fat, because my LDL was a tad high (I’m sure it was big and fluffy since my HDL and triglycerides were great). She also said I should cut back on carbs because my fasting blood sugar was 106 (an anomaly, probably because I worked out right before my appointment).
So, she recommended a low-fat, low-carb diet. That leaves alcohol and protien as my main energy sources. When I got home, I had Guinness and eggs for breakfast.
After reading your post, I think I finally see her logic.
I’ve actually had that breakfast, but I was much younger at the time.
There is of course the vested financial interest; and the visceral reaction of having your core beliefs challanged after spending so much time and money learning to parrot the “experts.”
But think if you’re this person who seems to have deep expeirence with dialysis patients. Think of them thinking of the consequences for all of those people they advised to get “good carbs.” How could you possibly decide you’re wrong and still sleep?
People tend to believe what they need to believe when they need to believe it.
Cheers
Absolutely. No one wants to face the possiblity that he or she has been harming people all these years.
I also got essentially the same advice (and admonitions) from my nutritionist AND endocrinologist. Completely useless.
oh me oh my. I am a nutritionist… well studying to be one. and it’s people like that make me ashamed to be in the industry. hopefully she is a dietitian and not an actual nutritionist. there is a difference!!!
I would recommended for this person to go back to Biochemistry and Physiology class once again. Perhaps review digestive system. re-read protein synthesis. look into lectins. come up with stronger arguments and not use “uhm, hello” when disputing with a grown adult. Perhaps get enough knowledge to support your view with something other then “carbs are used first, then fat then protein. grains are good” over and over again.
In a nutshell: uhm hello, grains are bad. Asians are not the healthiest, that’s a myth. China faces a diabetic epidemic. you know what’s the most common cause of death in China and Japan? uhm hello, Cerebro-vascular disease. that’s fancy for stroke. esophagus, stomach and liver cancer rates are way higher in China then US.
I would keep going, but i’m late for my nutritional biochemistry class.
Glad to know people who get it are also becoming nutritionists.
Yes, Tom, do call yourself a Decent Nutritionist For a Change! Every time I hear the phrase “wholesome wheat” or “artery-clogging egg”, I feel I must use the phrase “Double-chinned Dietician sitting at a desk slugging a Diet Coke and nibbling a mmmmmuffin”. -Now, I understand why, I’ve got FRM; furious rebuttal mode. ThanKs TOM!
We should careful about naming it; that means a drug will soon be developed.
Just a PS on the “nutritionist” vs “dietician” issue. Anyone can call themselves a “nutritionist.” Most states have no regulation on the usage, only on giving out “professional” advice (I’m guessing that means “for pay”).
http://www.riversideonline.com/health_reference/Diet-Nutrition/AN00987.cfm
Suggested debate signature: Tom Naughton – Filmographer, Code Monkey, Nutritionist
Just a thought… =)
I’ll be darned. Next time I get into one of these debates, I’ll have to inform the other party I’m a nutritionist.
absolutely terrific post. Sums up much of what i often spend too much time and energy trying to convey to people.
Most people view their parents as infallible gods, usually until one faithful day when they realize they are just human like everyone else. This “nutritionist” must be holding her school teachers and text books in the same position. Her view will break one day and the truth will set in. (Hopefully a good chance since she looks under 20 years old and has videos of cats and the Sims on her page)
And what is so important about making it whole grain. We need the fiber? Ugh… Soluble fiber… that gets broken down by gut flora into fatty acids, right? Un-soluble fiber… that turns into vitamin rich poo! Throw in some gluten and useless starch and, BOY, sounds really needed to me! Give me some bacon instead thank you very much.
In retrospect, it was to my advantage that I had a couple of professors in college who I’m reasonably sure were idiots. It snapped me out of professor-awe at a young age.
I’ve had a few of these by now as well, unfortunately sometimes with people who I respect and care about. It can be a tough argument to have.
I’m currently right at the point where I’m deciding what actual direction I should take with my further education. Currently just auditing an Outdoor Education course, which is the field I’d eventually like to work in, but to get there it may be best to get a general associate’s degree in physical education. Perhaps I should do so and concentrate on Outdoor Education and Sports Nutrition, the nutrition if nothing else to gain a little “street cred.”
“See, I’m well-educated in the field of nutrition. It was my primary concentration in working towards my degree. I know what I’m talking about, particularly when I say that the field of nutrition is full of crap.”
There are times I regret not going to medical school for exactly that reason. The MD might sway more people.
Every profession has a lot of trained monkeys. In my own chosen profession, I see a lot of people who have learned a skill and practice it with a strong faith akin to fervent religion but lacking any critical thinking. So is medicine and nutrition. My doctor seemed horrified when I told him I started eating eggs again. I frequently come across “nutrition experts” regurgitating the same old information. Despite their “education”, I find them utterly clueless of even stuff I have picked up in the last two years.
It makes me very angry to have received really bad nutrition advice and seen its effect on my health. Unfortunately, this whole generation has to die before this widely held whole-grains-are-good-for-you belief can be uprooted.
Science progresses one funeral at a time. — Max Planck
Tom, worth checking out, another excellent refutation of the slowly dying cholesterol theory:
http://www.imt.ie/clinical/2010/09/ldl-c-the-other-good-cholesterol.html
Outstanding. I’ll be happy when the cholesterol theory begins dying quickly instead of slowly.
Whenever I have the same conversation with someone, they are invariable equating carbs with glucose, not realizing the difference. Yes you do need some glucose to function properly, you just don’t have to get it from carbs. It is a distinction that they find difficult to understand.
Indeed, and they get it wrong on two counts: 1) We don’t need nearly as much glucose as they believe, since the body will happily shift to fat or ketones for many functions, 2) We can make the necessary glucose from protein and even from fat to a small extent.
I was in stitches! Thanks for this Tom. Awesome!
I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. Of course I’ve had many, many conversations like this. To be honest, at this point I don’t usually bother. I’ve found that in the vast majority of cases, it’s a waste of time and energy. I’ll save my breath for people who are open-minded and capable of reason.
I don’t expect to change the nutritionist’s mind either. But I feel a need to refute such nonsense for the benefit of people who stumble across the online debates.
Accidentally posted this on an old thread. Looks like you’re really going to be up against it.
Well aren’t you folks in Tennessee lucky!
http://www.tennessean.com/article/20100915/NEWS07/100915054/Tennessee+officials+set+to+unveil+anti-obesity+plan+Thursday
http://www.eatwellplaymoretn.org/
How much you want to bet they’re gonna push more bad advice on you folks?
Oh, dear. Here it comes.
Low blood sugar a bad thing? Only if you don’t have high FFA to replace them. Haven’t nutritionists heard of advanced glycation?
Probably not.
Let me count the ways this knob is wrong:
“it’s not wise” Argument by assertion.
“you need carbs to function” Argument by assertion.
“you actually do need carbs for lots of things” Argument by assertion.
“your body will burn muscle and fat as a last resort” Argument by assertion.
“‘No, I’m not a doctor or a nutritionist’ then stop pretending you know what people need” Appeal to authority.
“a nutritionist is specifically trained” Appeal to authority.
“rice. hello. it’s a grain” False equivalence. Not all grains are rice.
“come work where i do” Appeal to authority.
“dialysis patients don’t need to limit grains” Argument by assertion.
“don’t try to understand something you have no education in.” Appeal to authority.
“you need to go to your nutritionist to see the amount you need” Appeal to authority.
Okay, I see lots of assertions, lots of appeals to authority, and one false equivalence. That’s pretty pathetic.
Welcome to the world of nutrition “science.”
Don’t feel to bad about not being “certified”, it’s really not that hard. I had read “Personal Nutrition” by Boyle and Whiney in a nutrition class I flunked (it was actually more of a food politics class which bored the be-jeezus out of me) who had a story about how easy it is.
It seems Victor Herber (M.D.,chairman of Medicine,Hahnemann University) managed to get his cat certified at the “International Academy of Nutritional Consultants” and his dog certified at “American Association of Nutrition & Dietary Consultants”. Be at ease, the author assured us they had no intention of practicing LOL!
Joseph Brandenburg pulled a similar stunt and got his dog certified as a personal trainer.
What makes me want to smack this person is the utter inability to acknowledge that if “you need carbs to function” then how have those of us in the growing community of sane people managed to stay alive? It’s not just a “well that works for you’ thing.
There are a LOT of us who have given up grains entirely. Some people are living VLC and LC and thriving! (I, myself, have been Lacto-Paleo for 3 years. I gave up all grains, sugar, and starches and eat meat, fat, a few veg, and a tiny bit of dairy. I’ve lost 150lbs and am healthier than I’ve ever been in my life at 45!)
If “fruits, beans and whole wheat are needed in your diet’ (none of which I eat) then why aren’t I dead? Or sick? Why aren’t you, Tom? Waitaminit … are you a ZOMBIE? ;p
This blog is being maintained by an artificial-intelligence writing program I created before my grain-free diet killed me.