I usually make it a policy not to get involved in internet squabbles among bloggers, but I can’t resist this time – largely because one of the blogs is basically a front for a food company, and its owners are acting like adolescents jumping onto social media to slam their Very Worst Enemies from junior high school. Not exactly what I’d call appropriate behavior for corporate executives.
If you read Jimmy Moore’s blog, you know he tested his glucose reaction to Julian Bakery’s low-carb (ahem) bread awhile back, and the results weren’t pretty. The stuff spiked his glucose just like any other bread. Others have reported the same result. One angry customer even had the bread tested by an independent lab, which found that it contains way more carbohydrate and far less fiber than the company claimed. The FDA also sent the company a warning letter about the claims on its label. Jimmy reported that too.
Now, this is the point at which intelligent, mature executives would either keep mum and let the controversy pass, or perhaps announce that they’re working on fixing some errors in their process. But the goofballs running Julian Bakery aren’t intelligent or mature, so they stooped to producing blog posts and YouTube videos “exposing” Jimmy Moore as a fraud … oh, and Diane Sanfilippo too. I don’t know how or when she angered the adolescents running Julian Bakery, but they apparently felt the need to “expose” her too.
The blog posts and videos consist of the people who run Julian Bakery interviewing each other as experts … so it’s all roughly as believable as watching executives from Monsanto interviewing each other on the health benefits of semi-dwarf wheat. That alone would merely be laughable, but then the same people claiming to be angry over accusations of fraud prove what honest and trustworthy people they are by engaging in fraud — this time using pictures.
The pictures appear in a post with the laughable title of Low Carb Blogger & Author Jimmy Moore Exposed As Fraud By Heath Squier. (Heath Squealer – er, Squier — is one of the adolescents who run Julian Bakery.) Let’s check some quotes – and no, I’m not going to link to this garbage.
This picture specifically outlines Jimmy in 2009, when he stopped eating our products, and now, it shows him in 2014, and this is a current picture at Paleo fx in 2014.
Uh, Mr. Squealer, how exactly does a picture “outline” Jimmy? Is one picture of Jimmy surrounding another picture of Jimmy?
Okay, never mind. Here’s what Mr. Squealer was referring to in his didn’t-excel-in-English style of communication:
Well, there you have it, ladies and gentlemen. We see Jimmy in 2009, looking pretty good for a guy who once weighed more than 400 pounds and has battled obesity for his entire life. But then – and this is no doubt the crux of the problem – he stopped eating Julian Bakery products! He went on some crazy ketogenic diet and (as the article informs us) got fat. Man, if only he’d kept eating that Julian Bakery bread, he might still look as good as he did in 2009.
And we know that leaner-looking Jimmy picture is from 2009, because the Julian Bakery people said so, and they’re not the kind of people who would lie for the purpose of selling their products. That’s why they’re so gosh-darned sick and tired (as they inform us in their videos) of being accused of dishonesty. So I can only conclude that in addition to his other talents, Jimmy Moore is capable of time-travel. I can’t believe he never told me.
Take a good look at the t-shirt Jimmy is wearing in the (ahem) 2009 photo. Look familiar? Here, maybe this will help:
Yup, the lean, mean, fightin’-machine Jimmy is wearing one of our Wheat Is Murder t-shirts. We began producing those in June of 2011. Judging by the background, that’s a photo from one of the low-carb cruises. Can’t be the 2011 cruise, because the cruises are in May. So the earliest possible cruise where he could have worn a Wheat Is Murder shirt was 2012 – but we all know darned good and well that’s not a 2012 photo, don’t we? Jimmy weighed more than 300 pounds during the 2012 cruise. He was getting advice or insults from every direction.
The advice that finally made a difference came from Dr. Jeff Volek, who explained to Jimmy how to adjust his diet to stay in ketosis — you know, the diet the adolescents running Julian Bakery want you to believe ruined that great physique Jimmy had back in 2009, when he was still eating Julian Bakery bread and hopping into his time machine to buy a t-shirt I first produced in 2011.
Since that “2009” picture couldn’t possibly be from the 2012 cruise, it was likely taken during the 2013 cruise – i.e., after Jimmy had been on a ketogenic diet for a year and lost 80 pounds, despite not eating Julian Bakery bread.
But what the heck, let’s take the mystery out of it. Here’s a picture I know for certain was taken during the 2013 cruise, because I took it.
Darned if that physique doesn’t look just like the one Jimmy supposedly had back in 2009, when he was still eating Julian Bakery bread and buying t-shirts produced in the future. The length of his hair looks identical too. So I’m going to step out on a limb and say both of those pictures are of Jimmy after a year on his ketogenic diet.
Like I said above, I don’t know what exactly Diane Sanfilippo did to produce a temper-tantrum among the adolescent executive corps at Julian Bakery, but whatever it was, they responded by posting this picture from Paleo FX 2014 as proof she’s gotten fat – no doubt the result of failing to include Julian Bread in her diet.
I know a little bit about photography, so when I saw this picture, my guess was that the “fatter” Diane was result of bad lighting, not a “chunky” body.
Chunky? Yup, the adolescents named the picture Diane Sanfilippo Chunky when they uploaded it. Then one of them wrote this:
Of all the people I have searched for current photos belonging to the Paleo or health community, Diane was the most difficult to find any recent photos of. When I did find them, they were never full body and always a strange angle. It appears someone is working overtime to make sure that people don’t see, just like Jimmy and many other of her buddies, she has reverted back to her previous weight.
Hmmm … I found a different picture of Diane from the same event – with an angle I certainly wouldn’t call strange — and it only took me a few seconds. Perhaps Mr. Squealer and his fellow executives are mystified by Google. Or perhaps we should interpret that claim as: Of all the people I searched desperately hoping to find a picture that made her look fat, Diane was the most difficult.
Anyway, here’s what I found:
Geez, what a fatty, huh? I’m surprised she didn’t cite unspecified “security concerns” and back out of the event so no one could take her picture.
She looks exactly like she did when I met her on the 2013 cruise – which is to say, she’s built like an athlete, with too much muscle to ever be a skinny-Minnie, and she’s got great curves. (I say that with Chareva’s blessing. Unlike certain bakery executives, Chareva doesn’t have a fragile ego.) Perhaps Diane ate some Julian Bakery bread after that first picture and quickly lost weight as a result, then posed for the second picture.
In addition to warning readers about how Jimmy and Diane got fat after refusing to eat Julian Bakery bread, Mr. Squealer posted pictures of his own weight loss – which, I presume, was mostly induced by eating Julian Bakery bread. Take a look, and be sure to read the weight figures:
So that’s what a 33-pound weight loss looks like, eh? Boy, that’s got to be discouraging news for any guy with a big ol’ beer belly. He’d look at Mr. Squealer’s before-and-after pictures and think, “Geez, this guy loses 33 pounds and barely shrinks. That means I need to lose at least 300 pounds – which sucks, because I only weigh 285.”
I went to high school with a guy who was thickly muscled and as cut as I’ve ever seen outside the body-building world. And yet during a game of pickup basketball, I noticed that when he was winded, his belly relaxed and protruded a bit as he sucked in air. His abs appeared to go soft for a moment. Then he’d breathe out, the belly would shrink, and the abs looked chiseled again. It never occurred to me to stick a scale under him to see if his weight was fluctuating by 33 pounds as he breathed, but I’m pretty sure that wasn’t the case.
I once managed to semi-starve myself into a 35-pound weight loss. I was still a road comedian at the time, and when I walked into clubs where people on the staff hadn’t seen me in a year or so, the comments ranged from “Wow, you look like a totally different person!” to “Uh, pardon me for asking, but are you okay? You’re not sick or anything, are you?” I went from wearing either size 38 or 40 pants, depending on the style, to size 34 pants.
I don’t have any other pictures of what a 33-pound weight loss looks like, but here’s what a 50-pound weight loss looked like on Tom Hanks:
And here’s what a 60-pound weight loss looked like on Christian Bale when he starved himself for his role in The Machinist.
Bale lost 60 pounds and went from looking beefy to looking positively cadaverous. Mr. Squealer claims he lost a bit more than half that much weight, but the main difference I see in his before-and-after pictures (besides the degree to which he’s contracting his abs) is the lighting. I can only come up with three explanations:
- When you lose body fat, the first 33 pounds don’t make much of a difference in your physique.
- Mr. Squealer’s body produces a unique form of adipose tissue that is denser than lead. (I believe eating Julian Bakery bread cures the condition, however.)
- Mr. Squealer is lying about his weight loss.
But it couldn’t be number three, because that would be dishonest — and it’s not as if the company has been busted for false claims or anything. And it’s not as if the Julian Bread executives would stoop to grabbing a picture of Jimmy Moore from 2013 and claiming that’s what he looked like when he was eating their bread in 2009.
A couple more quotes from the blog before we go:
Talk about the absolute bipolar opposite of what we preach in the primal and paleo world, at least what I teach.
Um … what exactly does the “bipolar opposite” mean? Is that an opposite that sometimes isn’t an opposite and sometimes is, depending on whether it’s feeling manic or depressed?
Again, look at the photos. I won’t say anything. Just go look at the proof, and go look at these people on the Internet and their photos. They’re overweight and their weight fluctuates big time. Not to mention a lot of their employees. If you and your book is so great, why are almost all the people who work for you overweight?
If you and your bread is so great, why isn’t you able to grasp the relatively simple concept of subject-verb agreement? But more importantly, why doesn’t you act like grown-ups when your company’s product is criticized? Is it because you is immature?
And here’s a quote from one of the YouTube videos:
Paleo FX and Ancestral Health Conference are a joke.
So the Julian Bakery people have these bread products they hope to sell to the low-carb and paleo communities, and these are the strategies they employ and the statements they make in public. Brilliant. I’m sure these posts and videos are doing wonders for their corporate image.
It’s always so much fun watching children pretend to be grown-ups.
If you enjoy my posts, please consider a small donation to the Fat Head Kids GoFundMe campaign.
As always, Great article!!!
I should short Julian Bakery stock and make a killing!
Hey, now that you mention it, perhaps what I considered idiotic behavior is actually genius. Maybe they’re planning to buy up all their own stock and want the price to plummet for awhile, kind of like what Paul Newman’s character was attempting in “The Hudsucker Proxy.”
I’m not sure they’ll ever get their sales back up, though. Here’s a comment from the Yelp review site (on which Julian Bakery averaged 2/5 stars even before their latest tactics):
I’ve purchased products regularly over the years from Julian Bakery, that were hit or miss. I have terminated my customer relationship with this company because of the video on You Tube the owner Heath Squier posted in response to some concerns raised by Diane Sanfillipo that the bread is not ideal for a nutrient dense diet. Mr. Squier responded by scouring the internet for age progression and video still photos that were an attempt to shame her for being overweight (she isn’t) and undermine her professional credibility. I don’t buy from companies that fat shame. The Paleo movement is about striving for radiant health, not achieving a specific weight or body composition.
That review was written three days before my post. So if they’re not “Hudsucker”-style geniuses pretending to be idiots, then they certainly are idiots indeed.
There’s no way this tiny business is a publicly traded corporation. I’m guessing it’s run by Heath and has a few employees. They farm out the baking, bagging, and labeling to some 3rd party (aka “private label” production). I’ll guess they bake weekly or less, and freeze the inventory. They probably thaw some for the tiny retail outlet, and ship loaves frozen to end customers via UPS. I’ll guess that some loaves arrive worst the wear at the customer’s door.
I’ll probably ride my bike over to their retail store, check it out, and blog about it. Again, I eat a loaf of bread in one sitting, and I’m used to high-quality, fresh-baked NY Rye @ $4/loaf (Whole Foods or Bread & Cie). I’ll write an honest review.
Looks like Tom is pissing off “Special Agent” Collins.
I’m really think these guys are unstable
Their behavior really brings this to mind
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLKR9tCiwvA
If they’re not unstable, the other explanation is worse.
I just cannot believe those men. Just wow. Thank you for this post, Tom.
My local organic/natural foods store sells this bread. The owners are kind and ethical. I’m going to copy this article and send it to them and encourage them to not support this business. Man, if they had just kept quiet or just simply posted a fact-based rebuttal about their bread, it would have had no effect on their business. smh
Considering they can’t seem to type more than one sentence without coming across as semi-literate jackasses, keeping quiet would have been the smart choice.
Heath — you keep referring to the same thing over and over …the fact that your product is lab tested. That’s great! I think the uproar is how you treated people. I believe you keep digging yourself into a larger hole by responding the way you are. I haven’t seen many comments on here, other FB posts and/or IG that refer to your labeling (though I know that’s how it all started) — more has to do with your “fat shaming” and comparing before and afters. Low blow and really immature. And yet, you keep defending those statements by responding the way you do. You have lost a lot of business. I used your wraps, cereal and pizza dough ….and I promoted you on IG. A mere apology and recant on your personal attacks would have led me to continue on with your products. I now have no desire to support such a person/business. But like Tom says, keep talking. You’re doing more harm to yourself than good.
Just a quick copy-and-paste of some reactions to their tactics I’ve seen on Facebook:
Wow, talk about watching self-destruction in the making! It’s like they keep shooting themselves in the foot and blame their target, not their aim.
I’d never even heard of this company before but will now make a point of steering clear of their products.
I’m a raging hot ball of anger! I would (and will) forever boycott the f$&kwads of Julian Bakery.
If you’ve seen any of the childish rants by the Julian Bakery, read this.
Yet another reason to stay FAR away from Julian Bakery!!
One of the most disgusting displays of immaturity ever to grace my computer screen. These two bozos from Julian Bakery (and who even knows what their names are) should be ashamed of themselves and their behavior. Please share this post.
Like I’ve mentioned several times, I’m stunned that they don’t grasp what they’re doing to themselves and whatever is left of their reputations with those bizarre videos and posts, not to mention their replies here and elsewhere. Can you imagine, say, the president of McDonald’s engaging in nasty personal attacks all over the internet and somehow thinking that behavior will do anything other than ruin the company’s reputation and cost it a lot of customers?
I guess when they’re done educating us all about paleo health, Collins and Squealer will teach a class on public relations at Harvard Business School.
And as for their “lab tests”, please remember that they are repeat offenders, and have behaved hideously for years:
http://www.dietdoctor.com/give-low-carb-frauds-julian-bakery-deserve
Citing lab results over and over isn’t going to convince someone whose glucose meter shows Julian bread having the same effect as any other bread.
Motor oil is lab tested, too. 😉
As always, Great article!!!
I should short Julian Bakery stock and make a killing!
Hey, now that you mention it, perhaps what I considered idiotic behavior is actually genius. Maybe they’re planning to buy up all their own stock and want the price to plummet for awhile, kind of like what Paul Newman’s character was attempting in “The Hudsucker Proxy.”
I’m not sure they’ll ever get their sales back up, though. Here’s a comment from the Yelp review site (on which Julian Bakery averaged 2/5 stars even before their latest tactics):
I’ve purchased products regularly over the years from Julian Bakery, that were hit or miss. I have terminated my customer relationship with this company because of the video on You Tube the owner Heath Squier posted in response to some concerns raised by Diane Sanfillipo that the bread is not ideal for a nutrient dense diet. Mr. Squier responded by scouring the internet for age progression and video still photos that were an attempt to shame her for being overweight (she isn’t) and undermine her professional credibility. I don’t buy from companies that fat shame. The Paleo movement is about striving for radiant health, not achieving a specific weight or body composition.
That review was written three days before my post. So if they’re not “Hudsucker”-style geniuses pretending to be idiots, then they certainly are idiots indeed.
There’s no way this tiny business is a publicly traded corporation. I’m guessing it’s run by Heath and has a few employees. They farm out the baking, bagging, and labeling to some 3rd party (aka “private label” production). I’ll guess they bake weekly or less, and freeze the inventory. They probably thaw some for the tiny retail outlet, and ship loaves frozen to end customers via UPS. I’ll guess that some loaves arrive worst the wear at the customer’s door.
I’ll probably ride my bike over to their retail store, check it out, and blog about it. Again, I eat a loaf of bread in one sitting, and I’m used to high-quality, fresh-baked NY Rye @ $4/loaf (Whole Foods or Bread & Cie). I’ll write an honest review.
Looks like Tom is pissing off “Special Agent” Collins.
I’m really think these guys are unstable
Their behavior really brings this to mind
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLKR9tCiwvA
If they’re not unstable, the other explanation is worse.
I just cannot believe those men. Just wow. Thank you for this post, Tom.
My local organic/natural foods store sells this bread. The owners are kind and ethical. I’m going to copy this article and send it to them and encourage them to not support this business. Man, if they had just kept quiet or just simply posted a fact-based rebuttal about their bread, it would have had no effect on their business. smh
Considering they can’t seem to type more than one sentence without coming across as semi-literate jackasses, keeping quiet would have been the smart choice.
I’m not finding a source for that photo labeled “Paleofx 2014”, but I do remember watching this video from the 2014 Low Carb Cruise, which was around April or May this year. Paleofx was mid-April, so roughly the same time-frame.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yI4FM7u0R_c
From what I can tell, he doesn’t look much different than he did in 2013, and I met him in person last November.
Once you’ve been very fat, your body wants to go back there. A person who once weighed 400 pounds and then shrinks to 230 is not metabolically the same as someone who peaks at 230. Jimmy’s body will always be fighting him to a degree, trying to get fatter again. So all these internet cowboys who are basically saying Jimmy can’t possibly know what he’s talking about because he’s not built like a male model are, frankly, complete idiots. There are plenty of naturally lean people out there who don’t know diddly about weight loss.
I rarely trust nutrition advice from people who have never been overweight. I want advice from people who did the research, put in the work, and battle everyday. Those are the people who will continue to seek out answers and try new things!
To quote one of my favorite posters”
“Don’t try to win over the Haters. You’re not the Jackass Whisperer”
Submitted yelp review with a link to this great post. Looks like a lot of others have done so as well. The fake 5 star reviews there are funny. ‘I don’t know why there are all of these bad reviews….’ LOL
Suggest others add their reviews to google, yelp, etc. although I guess the word is out.
I’m not finding a source for that photo labeled “Paleofx 2014”, but I do remember watching this video from the 2014 Low Carb Cruise, which was around April or May this year. Paleofx was mid-April, so roughly the same time-frame.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yI4FM7u0R_c
From what I can tell, he doesn’t look much different than he did in 2013, and I met him in person last November.
Once you’ve been very fat, your body wants to go back there. A person who once weighed 400 pounds and then shrinks to 230 is not metabolically the same as someone who peaks at 230. Jimmy’s body will always be fighting him to a degree, trying to get fatter again. So all these internet cowboys who are basically saying Jimmy can’t possibly know what he’s talking about because he’s not built like a male model are, frankly, complete idiots. There are plenty of naturally lean people out there who don’t know diddly about weight loss.
I rarely trust nutrition advice from people who have never been overweight. I want advice from people who did the research, put in the work, and battle everyday. Those are the people who will continue to seek out answers and try new things!
I had that thought when I was looking at The Squealer’s “before” picture: Dude, if that’s what you looked like when you needed to lose (ahem) 33 pounds, you don’t have a flippin’ clue what it feels like to be fat.
And in, what, 2-3 months?? That is what jumped out at me on those two pics – Oct 2011 in Before and Dec 2011 for the After. WOW…
Yup. I can’t believe he thinks anyone is buying such obvious b.s.
Wow. I stumbled across this gem of a brouhaha and it got me through lunch. Thank you! I have nothing else to add other than that Gary reminds me of Keanu Reeves in Point Break (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPcIiDfj8yc). That is all.
I wasn’t familiar with Mr. Collins before all this. Having seen him in action, I’m now picturing him as the dumb-jock/bully-adolescent we all had the displeasure of knowing in junior high school. (The difference being that the rest of us have matured since leaving junior high.)
To quote one of my favorite posters”
“Don’t try to win over the Haters. You’re not the Jackass Whisperer”
Tom
I dont usually comment but this is on YouTube………………
http://youtube/IdDfF4hXfj4. It explains the technical merits of Julian Bread. I think the constant referral to ‘lab testing’ is perhaps a logical fallacy along the lines of the ‘higher authority’ gambit. Statins were ‘lab tested’and look where thats taking us.
Submitted yelp review with a link to this great post. Looks like a lot of others have done so as well. The fake 5 star reviews there are funny. ‘I don’t know why there are all of these bad reviews….’ LOL
Suggest others add their reviews to google, yelp, etc. although I guess the word is out.
Fake comments and reviews appear to be part of their modus operandi. Here’s a (ahem) comment from one of their videos:
Bravo. Its about time the truth was acknowledged. Time to get myself some Julian Bakery Bread.
Boy, isn’t it just lovely when people spontaneously show up on your channel and write comments that sound like ad copy? (Of course, a professional ad copywriter would know the difference between its and it’s. I suspect Mr. “I right my own books” doesn’t, however.)
Anyway, if that’s a genuine, unsolicited comment, I’ll eat my steel-toed boots. I guess Collins and Squealer, being dumbasses themselves, assume other people are equally stupid and can’t spot a shill.
I have never heard of Julian Bakery until now, but from what I have been seeing it looks like two guys decided to jump on the low-carb/paleo train and try to cash in. They didn’t seem to realize that most of the low-carb/paleo community are not like the sheeple that follow the crowd because it’s the popular thing to do. We have been awakened to the truth and taken time to do the research to educate ourselves. Low-carb/paleo may be picking up steam, but in my neck of the woods it’s far from being popular (they actually think I’m nuts, but are baffled by my results). If these two goofs were real business men they could have made a simple statement such as: It has come to our attention that people are getting results that differ from what our lab results show. We are looking into it to see what needs to be done. Even if they didn’t do anything about it, most people probably would have forgotten all about it. They probably still would have lost a little business, but not as badly as they will due to their way of handling it.
You nailed it.
Wow. I stumbled across this gem of a brouhaha and it got me through lunch. Thank you! I have nothing else to add other than that Gary reminds me of Keanu Reeves in Point Break (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPcIiDfj8yc). That is all.
I wasn’t familiar with Mr. Collins before all this. Having seen him in action, I’m now picturing him as the dumb-jock/bully-adolescent we all had the displeasure of knowing in junior high school. (The difference being that the rest of us have matured since leaving junior high.)
Tom
I dont usually comment but this is on YouTube………………
http://youtube/IdDfF4hXfj4. It explains the technical merits of Julian Bread. I think the constant referral to ‘lab testing’ is perhaps a logical fallacy along the lines of the ‘higher authority’ gambit. Statins were ‘lab tested’and look where thats taking us.
The link didn’t take me anywhere. Their lab tests are meaningless to people who find the bread spikes their glucose just like any other bread. And one of Jimmy’s readers sent their bread off to an independent lab, which found the bread was far lower in fiber and far higher in carbs than the label claims.
Now I’m half-tempted to get a loaf and send it to a lab myself …
Dooooo eeettttt.
Tom
You may have missed the irony in my reply (I’m from the UK- we cant help it). The link is a video I Iifted from the Diet Doctor site, sorry it doesnt work. You can copy and paste it into Google and it comes up. I should have put technical merits in inverted comments perhaps. I havent eaten bread for over 25 years by the way so I’m in no way endorsing this crap, and in my opinion, pointless product.
No, I gotcha on the irony. Just thought I’d point out either way, lab testing doesn’t matter as much as what happens to the individual who eats the stuff.
Here’s the proper link. It’s unbelievable:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdDfF4hXfj4
Also, I visited Julian Bakery this morning, and posted a review:
http://2lbsofstarch.com/2014/09/03/julian-bakery-la-jolla-ca/
As I said in “Warning: Gluten-Free” at:
http://wheatfreeforum.com/index.php/topic,350.0.html
“…
The formulators and marketers of “GLUTEN FREE!!” products, loaded with junk carbs (and often other unwise ingredients) either have no idea what they are doing (fooling themselves) or they know exactly (fooling us). …”
I’m not sure which is more disturbing.
I’m not sure it matters.
It’s fascinating to actually witness GF industry ‘minds’ at work.
Isn’t this mostly about Jimmy’s continued endorsement of a diet which has long since stopped working for him, and that may not actually be that healthy in the long-term? That might explain why there was some talk that this is allegedly this is something of a diversion on Jimmy’s part, based on what I’ve read. Squealer and carbsane aside though, even Richard Nickoley recently mentioned Jimmy’s condition, while Chris Kresser caught some flack for mentioning some potential warnings about a low-carb diet. Is there something I’m missing?
What makes you think it’s stopped working for him? Given that he once weighed 400 pounds and his body will always be fighting to regain the weight, what do you expect? That he’ll get to 220 and stay there? How many people who weighed 400 pounds have done that?
If I recall correctly, hadn’t Jimmy successfully kept his weight down (and his blood sugars, lipids, hormones, etc. optimal) for a few years (back around ’05-’06, I think) when he was doing daily cardio, and following a high-protein, moderate fat, moderate carb diet? Barring that, though, even ignoring the frequent regaining and blood lipids, might the pre-diabetic blood sugars, hormonal deficiencies, and micronutrient deficiencies while on this diet be a problem? Moreover, since it’s already been established that chronic ketosis is about as natural as chronic veganism, isn’t it fair to assert that its long-term health effects aren’t known, and it might be a touch premature to declare it a long-term cure-all? This isn’t at all a knock against Jimmy, as Squealer is a tool, Carbsane is, uh…Carbsane, and he’s done a lot for folks in the health and fitness world. If what she says is true (and coherent enough), however, then perhaps it shouldn’t be ignored? Moreover, when other folks within the network begin to mention this, however, then I’d assert that it bears looking into. Either way, I don’t know all the facts, so I’m just trying to be as accurate as possible. No information is ever complete, after all, so I just figured I’d ask someone much closer than I could ever realistically hope to be
Isn’t this mostly about Jimmy’s continued endorsement of a diet which has long since stopped working for him, and that may not actually be that healthy in the long-term? That might explain why there was some talk that this is allegedly this is something of a diversion on Jimmy’s part, based on what I’ve read. Squealer and carbsane aside though, even Richard Nickoley recently mentioned Jimmy’s condition, while Chris Kresser caught some flack for mentioning some potential warnings about a low-carb diet. Is there something I’m missing?
What makes you think it’s stopped working for him? Given that he once weighed 400 pounds and his body will always be fighting to regain the weight, what do you expect? That he’ll get to 220 and stay there? How many people who weighed 400 pounds have done that?
If I recall correctly, hadn’t Jimmy successfully kept his weight down (and his blood sugars, lipids, hormones, etc. optimal) for a few years (back around ’05-’06, I think) when he was doing daily cardio, and following a high-protein, moderate fat, moderate carb diet? Barring that, though, even ignoring the frequent regaining and blood lipids, might the pre-diabetic blood sugars, hormonal deficiencies, and micronutrient deficiencies while on this diet be a problem? Moreover, since it’s already been established that chronic ketosis is about as natural as chronic veganism, isn’t it fair to assert that its long-term health effects aren’t known, and it might be a touch premature to declare it a long-term cure-all? This isn’t at all a knock against Jimmy, as Squealer is a tool, Carbsane is, uh…Carbsane, and he’s done a lot for folks in the health and fitness world. If what she says is true (and coherent enough), however, then perhaps it shouldn’t be ignored? Moreover, when other folks within the network begin to mention this, however, then I’d assert that it bears looking into. Either way, I don’t know all the facts, so I’m just trying to be as accurate as possible. No information is ever complete, after all, so I just figured I’d ask someone much closer than I could ever realistically hope to be
Using the program you described, Jimmy slowly drifted back to over 300 pounds. Keep in mind he tried all kinds of protocols during that long period of creeping weight gain, including adding some safe starches back into his diet. I asked him about that awhile back, and he said the safe starches just made things worse.
I agree that chronic ketosis is not the natural human metabolic condition. That’s why I don’t aim for ketosis with my diet. But if some combination of genetics and metabolic damage has given you a metabolic set-point in the “morbidly obese” range, what was or wasn’t the metabolic state of your paleolithic ancestors is no longer relevant. You have to find something that works — and “works” in this case means whatever best helps your body offset the biochemistry that tries to return shrunken fat cells to their previous size. To declare that Jimmy can only label his diet a success if it allows him to spend the rest of his life at just over 50% of his peak weight is an unfair standard. That simply may not be possible, short of starvation that would endanger his health.
In GCBC, Taubes described a strain of obese rats who can literally be starved to death, but will still be very fat when they die. There is simply no diet that will allow them to become lean. When I interviewed Dr. Robert Lustig, he told me about a group of metabolically deranged adolescents who were put in a metabolic ward where their calorie intake could be strictly controlled. They were only given 500 calories per day — and they still got fatter. That’s how strong the hormonal drive to accumulate fat was in their bodies.
The point is, Jimmy may be dealing with a biological drive to gain body fat that is extremely difficult to control. It isn’t fair to judge him by the standards we’d apply to someone who merely (so to speak) needs to lose 50 pounds and keep it off.
Regarding the weight issue, that’s fair enough. I think we all know that there’s more to health than weight and body fat, and that how calories are processed has as much (if not more) to do with fat gain, than quantity alone. As such, I’m really just focusing more on the other health markers (lipids, sugars, gut flora, and hormones, mostly), and how much they seem to have not improved (at least for long) on his diet. It’d be one thing if these markers were stellar (or even average), as the weight re-gain could at least be rightfully attributed to the stress of a major writing project (no easy feat, I know), and not necessarily a fault of the diet. Given that even that benefit has seemed to have waned, however, it seems only fair that his continued endorsement of it will begin to raise some concerns (I had read that he’s close to being over 300lbs again, although I have my doubts; is this true?). Again, while this isn’t a knock against anyone or the movement itself, the main point of contention is that such issues really do give detractors–particularly the more vocal and aggressive folks–some real ammo.
All-in-all, as far as I know, allegedly Squire & co. claimed that this whole fiasco was started by Jimmy & friends in order to distract from his weight gain and other health issues. This intention seems not to be the case, though, as Squealer really does seem to be taking liberties with his ‘weight issues’ (even if unintentionally), and his product is absolutely defective. When other folks within the network begin to voice concerns, however, then isn’t there really something worth looking into here? It’s all too easy to get sucked into sensationalism, so I’m really more interested in questions and answers than judgment and gossip. As such, it seems only time will tell. Either way, thanks for the helpful info and insight
Squealer and Collins have demonstrated several times that they’re habitual liars, so I doubt anyone is buying that line. If their excuse now is that Jimmy was trying to create a distraction, that hardly explains their crappy behavior or obvious lies. I’m surprised they didn’t try “The devil made me do it!”
And what the hell is their excuse for trying to trash Diane Sanfilippo?
Unless Jimmy has gained a helluva lot of weight since his visit here in July, he doesn’t weigh anything close to 300 pounds. The last set of lab markers I’m aware of him having looked pretty good overall. The LDL is high, but some people have genetically high LDL.
It’s funny how every internet cowboy out there knows what the proper diet is for Jimmy. Every internet cowboy knows how Jimmy could lose weight. Every internet cowboy knows how Jimmy could improve his labs. Every internet cowboy knows that if Jimmy just did it this way or that way, he’d weigh 210 pounds for the rest of his life, his cholesterol would plummet, he’d have the hormones of an 18-yaer-old Zulu warrior, and his shoe size would shrink. Apparently the only person who can’t figure out the Super-Special Perfect Diet To Save Jimmy Moore is Jimmy himself.
Of course, if Jimmy tried that Super-Special Perfect Diet to Save Jimmy Moore and it caused him to gain 50 pounds because of the higher carb content, the same cowboys would jump all over him yet again.
With all the experimenting he’s done, all the weight he’s lost and regained and lost again, all the tracking he’s done of his glucose and other markers, all the experts he’s consulted and followed, etc., I think it may be time for the cowboys to consider the possibility that Jimmy actually knows what’s best for Jimmy, and that given his genetic history and his former status as a 400-pounder, there’s no diet he can adopt that’s going to produce numbers that will satisfy the cowboys.
I haven’t looked at Jimmy’s lab values but high LDL is an effect of the Friedenwald eqution used to calculate the value. LDL is generally not measured but only derived from the total cholesterole, triglyceride and HDL. What most labs don’t know or have forgotten is that the formula is an approximation that was established from a sample of several hundreds New Yorkers used as the “normal” basis. Furthermore, the formula itself could was only accurate for a triglyceride level between 100mg/l and 400mg/l. If trigs are outside this range, the formula is inacurrate. Low carbers have generally trig significantly below 100mg/l, therefore their LDL values are not accurate.
Good point. If you really want to know what’s happening with your LDL, including particle size, you should get an NMR lipoprofile.
1. I just spent the better part of a Sunday afternoon reading most of these comments, and I am left shaking my head at the utter lack of common sense displayed by the Julian sycophants here. At this point, even if Julian bread were absolutely delicious, and completely carb free with the bonus of actually causing weight loss when consumed, and was given to me for free, I still wouldn’t eat it, simply because of the behavior of its proponents.
2. I want to hug this particular comment, Tom. I think this finally explains me, and my epic struggle to lose weight. But then, it leaves me with the feeling that there really isn’t much hope, and I am consigned to my fate of being obese for the rest of my life.
I understand the frustration. I think the best some people can hope for is to set their sights on being healthy and learn to accept those pounds that don’t want to go away.
Fair is fair. If this is a case of jokers being jokers, then it’ll invariably blow over, and all will be normal until the next big scandal. I still really don’t know much about Diane, Julian, Heath & co., or too much else, so it’ll have to slide. Overall, this will all be cleared in time, and that’s all I have to say about that
Given their behavior, I sincerely hope it blows over when Julian Bakery files for bankruptcy.
So I’m guessing the clowns at Julian Bakery have never heard of the Streisand effect….
I never bought into the whole low carb bread that tastes like the real thing BS. To me, it’s like vegetarians who eat fake bacon. You’re never going to equal the original, so why try? Bread and all baked goods are my downfall so I just stay away from them. If you don’t eat them, you don’t obsess about them.
That can certainly be a problem. I’ve found I can have my two slices of gluten-free toast on the weekend without starting to crave bread again, but if I start dreaming of Wonder Bread, I’ll take that as a sign to stop.
So I’m guessing the clowns at Julian Bakery have never heard of the Streisand effect….
I never bought into the whole low carb bread that tastes like the real thing BS. To me, it’s like vegetarians who eat fake bacon. You’re never going to equal the original, so why try? Bread and all baked goods are my downfall so I just stay away from them. If you don’t eat them, you don’t obsess about them.
That can certainly be a problem. I’ve found I can have my two slices of gluten-free toast on the weekend without starting to crave bread again, but if I start dreaming of Wonder Bread, I’ll take that as a sign to stop.
Guess what? They’re BACK with a BOGUS “Paleo Bar”. They are touting it as low carb, even though it has 28 carbs per bar. Full of sugar alcohol (which they subtract, along with the fiber, to give you a “net” carb number that is misleading at best). I’m sure the Julian Bakery FB page will be blocking me any moment, as I have posted your blog link in their comments section.
Last week, I let them have it on the misleading ads for the “new” Paleo Bar, and exposed them on their page for being frauds. I don’t think they even KNOW the “meaning” of Paleo, since processed foods (of any kind) cannot be considered Paleo.
KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK, Tom!!!
So lots of sugar alcohol — which, as the Julian people figured out, was an important part of Paleo Man’s diet. And to think the semi-literate Mr. Collins showed up here to accuse me of just being in it for the money.
Guess what? They’re BACK with a BOGUS “Paleo Bar”. They are touting it as low carb, even though it has 28 carbs per bar. Full of sugar alcohol (which they subtract, along with the fiber, to give you a “net” carb number that is misleading at best). I’m sure the Julian Bakery FB page will be blocking me any moment, as I have posted your blog link in their comments section.
Last week, I let them have it on the misleading ads for the “new” Paleo Bar, and exposed them on their page for being frauds. I don’t think they even KNOW the “meaning” of Paleo, since processed foods (of any kind) cannot be considered Paleo.
KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK, Tom!!!
So lots of sugar alcohol — which, as the Julian people figured out, was an important part of Paleo Man’s diet. And to think the semi-literate Mr. Collins showed up here to accuse me of just being in it for the money.
What a shock, I’ve tasted alot of things that weren’t good but good for you…okay, but this bread actually smells foul, and the taste made me instintively spit it out…..44 bucks down the drain..their customer service was as bad…Don’t order it people, it is awful.
I bought a loaf of their paleo bread at the local healthfood store. The taste was not good, and my wife and I were both left with an unpleasant burning sensation in the back of the throat after eating it. I can only shake my head and wonder what the hell would drive someone to market such a horrendously terrible product.
What a shock, I’ve tasted alot of things that weren’t good but good for you…okay, but this bread actually smells foul, and the taste made me instintively spit it out…..44 bucks down the drain..their customer service was as bad…Don’t order it people, it is awful.
I bought a loaf of their paleo bread at the local healthfood store. The taste was not good, and my wife and I were both left with an unpleasant burning sensation in the back of the throat after eating it. I can only shake my head and wonder what the hell would drive someone to market such a horrendously terrible product.
OK, question for any in the know. I purchased the “sample pack” of the JB Paleo Bars. Honestly, they don’t taste horrible to me but I dig hospital food too. Anyway, I’ve eaten two of them and each one has given me a stomach ache. The ingredients don’t look like anything that would cause that. Any clue? Thanks!
You trust the ingredients label on a Julian Bakery product? Haven’t you been paying attention?
OK, question for any in the know. I purchased the “sample pack” of the JB Paleo Bars. Honestly, they don’t taste horrible to me but I dig hospital food too. Anyway, I’ve eaten two of them and each one has given me a stomach ache. The ingredients don’t look like anything that would cause that. Any clue? Thanks!
You trust the ingredients label on a Julian Bakery product? Haven’t you been paying attention?