I’ve been reading and hearing about the supposed benefits of intermittent fasting for some time now. Several bloggers I follow have recommended intermittent fasting, including Mark Sisson, Richard Nikoley, and Dr. Mike Eades. Richard (of the Free the Animal blog) in particular seems to have good success with IF.
I never tried it, however, for the simple reason that going 24 hours or more without eating sounded rather awful. Whenever I tried very-low calorie diets, I was usually halfway to miserable by bedtime on the first day … cranky, mentally foggy, and waaaay hungry. I remember trying to get by on Slim-Fast for breakfast and lunch, only to find my hands shaking by mid-afternoon. I would be counting the minutes until dinner, when I could eat a real meal.
Of course, I tried those low-calorie diets back when I was living primarily on carbohydrates and had conditioned myself to be a sugar-burner. Now that I’m on a low-carb diet and have conditioned my body to depend primarily on fat for fuel, I often skip breakfast anyway just because I’m not hungry yet. So when I recently listened to a podcast about intermittent fasting, it occurred to me that I could probably try a 24-hour fast now without feeling miserable.
It so happened that I slept late on Wednesday, and by the time I finished dealing with emails, DVD orders, blog comments, and a couple of phone calls with clients, it was already 2:00 p.m. My last meal had been some sliced turkey at midnight, so if I could just go without eating for another 10 hours, I’d have a 24-hour fast under my belt.
I haven’t read up on intermittent fasting nearly as much as Mike Eades or Richard Nikoley, but from what I understand, the benefits are largely hormonal. Insulin levels come down, while both glucagon and human growth hormone go up. Some body-builders claim intermittent fasting not only makes them leaner, but stronger, thanks to the human growth hormone.
So, what the heck, I decided to push on through until midnight without eating. (I did, however, start the day with my usual big cup of coffee. You don’t want to be anywhere near me if I don’t get my morning coffee.)
The biggest surprise was how easy it was. I felt a few “Feed me, Seymour!” grumbles around dinnertime, but they passed. No mental fog, no shakes, no sudden urges to beat my children. I can only assume my body was doing a good job of mobilizing fatty acids and ketones for fuel.
I considered going to bed without eating, but decided 24 hours was good enough for my first fast. I ate some turkey and a handful of almonds at midnight. (My wife, a dedicated bargain shopper, bought turkeys on sale before Christmas and froze them. I believe we’ll be having a roasted turkey once per month until the Fourth of July.)
My first fast was so painless, I decided to try a 36-hour fast next. On Saturday night, I indulged in some red wine, cheese, and two big handfuls of mixed nuts while watching “Band of Brothers” on DVD. As is often the case when I eat a late-night meal, I wasn’t hungry at all on Sunday morning. I didn’t have plans for the day other than reading and watching the football playoffs, so it seemed like a good choice for an all-day fast.
Once again, I was surprised at how painless it was. Curious as to why I didn’t have the shakes or feel light-headed, I checked my blood glucose around 6:00 PM and was surprised see it was around 95. It’s usually in the 85-90 range when I wake up in the morning. Apparently my body was adjusting with no trouble.
From an evolutionary standpoint, it all makes sense, of course. Paleolithic hunters almost certainly had to go without eating now and then, and if missing a few meals meant their hands were too shaky to toss a spear accurately, they’d miss quite a few more. We’re almost certainly well adapted to intermittent fasting, at least if what we eat day-to-day doesn’t mess up our ability to mobilize body fat for fuel when we need it. I couldn’t get by on Slim-Fast because I was an insulin-resistant sugar-burner consuming little cans of liquid sugar for meals. Not enough sugar to get me through the day, and I couldn’t release fatty acids quickly enough to make up the difference.
I went to bed after midnight and slept like a rock. I was hungry when I woke up this morning, but the feeling went away after my first big cup of black coffee. I finally began to feel really and truly hungry around noon, which was the 36-hour mark. Fortunately, my wife had saved a ribeye steak from the dinner she served the girls last night. I ate about half the steak and a cup of her delicious chili, which is light on the beans and heavy on the ground beef.
I don’t know if I’ll ultimately continue intermittent fasting once per week, twice per week, or get bored with it altogether and stop. But since it was nowhere near as difficult as I anticipated, I’ll give it a shot for now. I’ll keep you posted on the results.
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Do you think that we shouldn’t use a sugar substitute during IF? I think we shouldn’t but hope it is OK.
I haven’t seen anything pro or con.
Boosh, take a look at the Evolutionary Psychiatry blog.
Your brain on ketones.
Western diet and ADHD.
I have tried IF, too, but it was several months ago. I would be interested to know what podcast you were listening to that made you want to give it a shot.
So, do you feel you benefited by the trial IF in any way? When I did it before, I lost weight.
It was a podcast with Brad Pilon, but I can’t find that particular one. Should’ve bookmarked it. It feels like I’ve lost a little weight, but it’s too soon to tell.
I have tried IF, too, but it was several months ago. I would be interested to know what podcast you were listening to that made you want to give it a shot.
So, do you feel you benefited by the trial IF in any way? When I did it before, I lost weight.
It was a podcast with Brad Pilon, but I can’t find that particular one. Should’ve bookmarked it. It feels like I’ve lost a little weight, but it’s too soon to tell.
I recently listened to an older podcast on Jimmy Moore with a Dr. Thomas Seyfried. He researches the effect of ketogenic diets on various diseased individuals including brain cancer victims. He categorically stated that if everyone fasted for 7 to 10 days once a year, no one would ever get cancer. Anyone know anything about this….
Dr. Eric Westman mentioned in one of his lectures that certain types of cancer may respond well to a ketogenic diet, but others might not. I heard from a oncologist once that cancers fall into two categories- a “fatty Western diet” kind, and a starvation kind that people get from malnutrition in third world countries. Basically, different cancers behave differently. There are a lot of kinds of cancer where the cancer cells can only consume glucose as the main source of food according to some small studies so fasting and/or a ketogenic diet seems like a hopeful treatment. There’s no big money in telling people to not eat carbs, though, so I doubt any large studies will ever be done.
I know at least one small study has been done. It would be nice if some large ones were conducted, but I’m not holding my breath.
I recently listened to an older podcast on Jimmy Moore with a Dr. Thomas Seyfried. He researches the effect of ketogenic diets on various diseased individuals including brain cancer victims. He categorically stated that if everyone fasted for 7 to 10 days once a year, no one would ever get cancer. Anyone know anything about this….
Dr. Eric Westman mentioned in one of his lectures that certain types of cancer may respond well to a ketogenic diet, but others might not. I heard from a oncologist once that cancers fall into two categories- a “fatty Western diet” kind, and a starvation kind that people get from malnutrition in third world countries. Basically, different cancers behave differently. There are a lot of kinds of cancer where the cancer cells can only consume glucose as the main source of food according to some small studies so fasting and/or a ketogenic diet seems like a hopeful treatment. There’s no big money in telling people to not eat carbs, though, so I doubt any large studies will ever be done.
I know at least one small study has been done. It would be nice if some large ones were conducted, but I’m not holding my breath.
Just a thought for anyone having trouble maintaining energy while IFing. I do cheat with coconut oil. I have read something about coconut oil sending the body into ketosis. It does seem to give me the lift I need to maintain. OK, I guess I”m not technically fasting, but it seems to work well for me.
And, it does get MUCH easier over time, took about a month of 24 hour fasts about twice a week for me to really adjust, and now I actually look forward to it.
I find it’s getting easier too. Earlier this week (after skipping breakfast, as I usually do) I was running errands that took longer than expected and ended up going 22 hours without eating, with only some coffee and cream in between. I was only aware of being hungry for about the las hour.
Just a thought for anyone having trouble maintaining energy while IFing. I do cheat with coconut oil. I have read something about coconut oil sending the body into ketosis. It does seem to give me the lift I need to maintain. OK, I guess I”m not technically fasting, but it seems to work well for me.
And, it does get MUCH easier over time, took about a month of 24 hour fasts about twice a week for me to really adjust, and now I actually look forward to it.
I find it’s getting easier too. Earlier this week (after skipping breakfast, as I usually do) I was running errands that took longer than expected and ended up going 22 hours without eating, with only some coffee and cream in between. I was only aware of being hungry for about the las hour.
Another interesting point about the Minnesota Experiment is that the two subjects who started with the most muscle mass had the least amount of metabolic complications.
Another interesting point about the Minnesota Experiment is that the two subjects who started with the most muscle mass had the least amount of metabolic complications.
I’ve been doing intermittent fasting for several months now. My fasts are only 16 hours, but I do them every day, and they’re working, taking me down from the 84 kilograms I weighed a year ago to around 73 kilograms at present. My goal is to get down to 65 or so by December.
My mom, a true believer in the “eat breakfast to lose weight” mantra, claimed I’d “balloon up” on the day I announced I’d stop eating breakfast. I haven’t ballooned up one bit. Seriously, how do you get fat from eating less?
You don’t.
hi lucky joestar!
can you explain how you fast? you fast morning and eat afternoon?
thanks
I’ve been doing intermittent fasting for several months now. My fasts are only 16 hours, but I do them every day, and they’re working, taking me down from the 84 kilograms I weighed a year ago to around 73 kilograms at present. My goal is to get down to 65 or so by December.
My mom, a true believer in the “eat breakfast to lose weight” mantra, claimed I’d “balloon up” on the day I announced I’d stop eating breakfast. I haven’t ballooned up one bit. Seriously, how do you get fat from eating less?
You don’t.
hi lucky joestar!
can you explain how you fast? you fast morning and eat afternoon?
thanks
I have been taking 5 cocanut oil capsules for breakfast and 5 capsules for lunch 5 days a week for the last 5 months. I have also been taking a table spoon of fiber powder in water each time I take the cocanut capsules. I eat regularly at night. I don’t get hungery during the day and I have not had the brain fog or energy loss I had with just fasting. I have been lossing a steady 5 pounds a month for the last 5 months. Krogers has had the cocanut oil capsules on sale, buy one get one free so it only costs me $13 for breakfast and lunch for 24 days ($0.55 a day), which is a bonus
I have been taking 5 cocanut oil capsules for breakfast and 5 capsules for lunch 5 days a week for the last 5 months. I have also been taking a table spoon of fiber powder in water each time I take the cocanut capsules. I eat regularly at night. I don’t get hungery during the day and I have not had the brain fog or energy loss I had with just fasting. I have been lossing a steady 5 pounds a month for the last 5 months. Krogers has had the cocanut oil capsules on sale, buy one get one free so it only costs me $13 for breakfast and lunch for 24 days ($0.55 a day), which is a bonus
16 hour fasting is effective as well. I’ll sometimes have dinner around 8 pm and then not eat again until noon the next day. This might be a good option for people starting out as you can sleep through most of the fast. If you are eating low carb then hunger really won’t be a problem.
Art De Vany advocates fasting about once a week in his new book The New Evolution Diet. He claims it promotes production of human growth hormone and triggers the body to repair DNA.
I read that some people limit their food intake to noon – 8 PM or something similar for exactly that purpose.
Intermittent fasting is a great way to burn fat and build muscle but it boggles my mind how you could bring up the topic without mention Martin Berkhan who is the man behind Richard’s IF success and the true subject expert. He has a great blog with many good reads at http://www.leangains.com. Check out his clients, amazing real world results.
Richard has mentioned quite a few people, including Martin Berkhan, Art Devaney, and Brad Pilon. I’m hoping people follow the links and read Richard’s posts.
Great post Tom. Exactly my experience too in terms of not being able to even contemplate IF whilst I was a sugar burner. As soon as I was fat adapted, it became very easy to go without.
I think we can safely assume our paleo ancestors weren’t sugar-burners. They probably had to hunt in a fasted state, and I can’t imagine chasing down prey with low blood sugar and the shakes.
I routinely try to go 16 hours a day without anything but water: finished eating dinner by 6pm and nothing until 10am the next morning. The first thing I have most mornings is some decaf chai tea with Truvia, coconut milk and heavy cream, followed by four organic cage-free eggs and cheese and topped by a tablespoon of Organic Valley Pasture Butter. This usually sees me through to dinner, although some days I will stop off at the local cajun foods place and pick up a 1/3 lb of warm, fresh pork cracklins on the way to pick up my daughter from preschool.
I find that, once I adjust to the schedule, I have no problem with 16 hours each day without food. I have read that this form of IF helps purge the body of glycated and damaged proteins in the cytoplasm as well as boost levels of testosterone and HGH.
That seems to be a common technique for IF. Since I’m rarely hungry in the morning, it would be a logical choice … starting around noon in my case.
Tom – This topic came up at home last weekend and before my husband had a chance to overreact I pointed out that this is something he’s been doing inadvertently for quite a while. He’ll come home from work late at night sometimes and totally skip dinner if he’s not hungry and/or sleep in and skip breakfast the next day. On the weekends he’ll wake up and go walk a round (18 holes) carrying his clubs with no problem, then come back later in the afternoon and finally be hungry.
I don’t like to use the “fasting” word in public though, people think you’re nuts – and it is true, back in my good old sugar days I couldn’t go more than 3 hours without eating which is probably where most people are coming from so no wonder they can’t imagine it. But how would the human race would ever have survived if we couldn’t go more than 3 hours without food?
‘Fasting’ does have a mystic-monkish connotation.
The ability to fast with ease has been the biggest surprise for me (and my husband) since reducing carbs. The old, carb-addicted, me HAD to eat every couple of hours or I could barely concentrate on anything else. Now a 20-hour stretch between meals is a breeze. I do wonder about the term ‘fasting’ being over-used though – skipping breakfast/eating 2 meals a day feels natural to me now, so am I technically ‘fasting’ if I’m not ignoring hunger signals? My hubby does 36 to 48-hour fasts and for him the second day is a revelation of peacefulness (tending to mild euphoria), and mental acuity.
Amen to your comments about coffee. When I do feel hungry and can’t get good food (if I’m not at home) it’s a great appetite suppressant… Plus, I’m cheerfully addicted to caffeine.
I drink (coffee) to that. Fasting when I was a carb addict would’ve been torture.
Hi Tom
Just a word of “warning” though…
Intermittent fasting can be quite addictive 🙂
Also recently started intermittent fasting and instead of getting weak and jittery etc, I felt more alert and did not suffer any drop in performance (went about my work and workout as per normal)…
Your experience sounds similar to mine. I haven’t heard of the addiction angle before. I wonder if it’s somewhat similar to aneroxia.
Hi Tom~
I was considering IF again to help shed some of the affects of ‘falling off of the wagon’ over the holidays. I just don’t know that I’m back to full-on fat-burning mode (really off the wagon this year!)
Anyway, reading your post made me wonder what you ARE eating these days. Do you have the obligatory “this is typically how/what I eat” posted somewhere?
I haven’t posted on my current diet, but it’s come up in comments. Mostly meat, eggs, green vegetables, seafood, and nuts. I don’t put cream in my coffee every day anymore, and I’ve cut back on the cheese, but I’m not totally off dairy. I just eat less of it.
A few other words of warning:
1. IF can trigger people who have a history of eating disorders (not just anorexia, but those with binge/purge or starve cycles)
2. Overdoing IF, especially in combination with coffee drinking, can destroy adrenal function, leading to all sorts of unpleasant symptoms. It seems a lot of LC paleos have had this experience, once the honeymoon period is over.
I can see where someone with aneroxic or bulimic tendencies should avoid fasting.
There’s been a few days over the last few weeks where I inadvertently fast for about 18 hours. Sometimes, I just forget to eat until the evening. I’m not going out of my way to do it, though. I’ll be keeping an eye out for your results.
Unfortunately, I haven’t been to the gym since before Christmas, so I don’t have a baseline weight measurement — we don’t have a scale at home. But I know when I’m getting leaner. My belt tells me.
This does make perfect sense, considering that in hunter-gatherer times, it’s doubtful that people were eating “three square meals per day.” It seems reasonable that eating once per day may have been common. I haven’t tried it myself, but I do find that once or twice per week, I have an 8 or 10 hour stretch between eating for various reasons (compared to my normal 6 hours), and I usually think nothing of it.
I’m not on a particularly low-carb diet, and I’m not overweight, but since discovering Fathead, BigFatFiasco, and Gary Taubes’ stuff, I’ve been seriously scaling back on the carbs, working on improving my protein+fat-to-carbs ratio. My big problem is beverages: I primarily drink sweetened iced tea, nearly a half-gallon per day, which totals around 140g of carbs. I cut that in half as soon as I realized how insane it is, and I’ve been drinking more water instead. But it seems there are few other good options: fruit juices, while “natural”, are still bursting with carbs; the same is true of soda, of course; and I’m not willing to consume aspartame or any of the other artificial sweeteners. There’s milk, but that’s not the kind of thing I want to drink all day, and it’s not particularly low in carbs anyway. So what else is there?
I sometimes make iced tea sweetened with Truvia, but for the most part, I’ve found that the longer I’m away from sweet foods, the less I crave them. Once I shook my diet soda habit, my desire for any kind of sweet drink pretty much went away.
Interesting post. I do think there’s a caveat for people with adrenal/thyroid issues though… if you’re not 100% fit, the opposite of the desired effect can take place- body temperature and metabolic rate can drop, also if your blood sugar is unstable, it can drop as well, meaning that over-eating is a distinct possibility once eating resumes….
I certainly wouldn’t encourage people who are still on the blood-sugar rollercoaster to try fasting.
My fasting BG has also gone up since I started adding IF to my day (usually 14 hours, not 24).
My post-prandials are as good or better than before, but my morning number is about 10 points higher.
The whole idea of IF, based on what we know about paleolithic times, makes perfect sense to me. Food wasn’t always immediately available for our paleolithic ancestors (fridges didn’t work very well back then 🙂 ) and going without would have been quite common. It’s certainly something I’ll be giving a try.
DS
Yup, you’ve got to figure even in areas where fish and game were plentiful, not every hunt was successful.
This is the sort of thing I disagree with, to be honest with you. It makes no sense to me to avoid eating when you’re hungry as when my parents forced me to finish my plate when I was full. I’ve become prone to eating on demmand. If I’m really full I’ll skip a meal and eat once I fell properly hungry again, but this sort of thing is not for me.
Hey Tom i just wanted to share some of the benefits associated with short periods of fasting im sure everyone would agree that its quite benificial
In dozens of published peer reviewed scientific studies, short-term intermittent fasting has been found to have the following health benefits:
• Decreased body fat & body weight
• Maintenance of skeletal muscle mass
• Decreased blood glucose levels
• Decreased insulin levels & increased insulin sensitivity
• Increased lipolysis & fat oxidation
• Increased Uncoupling Protein 3 mRNA
• Increased norepinephrine & epinephrine levels
• Increased Glucagon levels
• Increased growth hormone levels.
I think what fasting demonstrates is we tend to consume way too much food. The 2000 calories/day number that gets thrown around seems high. If one were to estimate one’s basal metabolic rate with the various formulas available, 2000 is way more than enough.
Maybe if we ate the proper portions of the right things, factory farming practices wouldn’t be as necessary. As it is now, don’t we pay farmers not to grow stuff?
We pay some not to grow, and others to grow way more than anyone needs. It’s insane.
Hi Tom,
For what it is worth. A few times last year I was in the position of not being able to eat for an extended period of time of about 21 hours. When the hunger pains came I had to just ignore them as there was no opportunity to eat. If I remember correctly, the pains did not last overly long, just enough to let me know I was hungry. I knew I was going to be eating soon so I was not worrying about it. What I found interesting, was that after the pains passed that I had a ton of energy like I had not had in ages. I am not a runner, but I imagined that this must be what a “runners high” must feel like. I cannot remember how long the sensation lasted, but I was able to take advantage of it on my hike. I actually felt compelled to run! I cannot run at this time because of a foot injury, but I sure wanted too!
Susan
I was surprised at my energy level too once the hunger passed. I guess the body say, “No food coming … better open the fat cells and release some fuel.”
Tom, no – I was actually told to avoid all dairy for several days following the tonsillectomy; it supposedly stimulates the production of mucous, causing you to clear it more than is good for a bruised and battered throat. If I had been able to eat dairy I still would have given the ice cream a pass, but I would have been scarfing down full-fat, non-sweetened yogurt by the bucket-load.
They DID tell me to eat Popsicles, to help keep me hydrated. We bought a box of sugar-free ones, but it took only one for me to realize that the citric acid in them was going to do my throat more harm than good, so I stuck to ice water and lukewarm bone broth.
I’m glad I read the comments section here – it has encouraged me to go ahead with the IF, but to wait until I can completely give up coffee and increase my exercise before I do any extended fasting; my poor adrenal glands will thank me.
If coffee plus intermittent fasting is truly a bad combination, I’ll have to give up the fasting. My attemps to give up coffee weren’t pretty. And frankly, considering all the bad habits I’ve given up, I think I’m entitled to keep one.
I have always been a morning person–finding my most productive times to be between rising and 3pm. I have never liked breakfast but forced myself for years to comply with the “balanced” rationale of 3 meals/day. I would often postpone lunch as long as I could because after eating I would get so sleepy I couldn’t function. Had I understood during all the years of struggling with this that my nearly comatose postprandial state was classic insulin resistance I would probably not have had the life-changing heart attack that I suffered two years ago that set me on the path of ignoring all of the mainstream medical advise in favor of discerning for myself (from reading the research literature) the best path to follow.
I have been on a PaNu diet (ala Dr. Kurt Harris) for nearly a year. I initially lost five lbs and then another 5 over the year. When my weight loss stalled, I decided to try IF to see if that would jump start my metabolism and foster additional weight loss by changing my set point. Importantly, I gave myself permission to allow my own body to determine when I would eat. It turned out that I was most comfortable and had sustained energy eating only every 24 hours or so–for me this was not fasting it was paying attention to my own signals. Since I was comfortable with this eating schedule(but still did not lose any weight) after a month I decided to try ADF (alternate day fasting) and kept a record of food intake, weight loss, and biomarkers such as blood pressure, glucose, ketones,etc.
The first day of ADF was a little rough (probably like it is for most people who try to do their first 24 hr IF). I started to feel hungry at about 9PM. It had been 24 hours (as usual) since my last meal. After two hours of intermittent hunger pangs and messages in my head prompting me to eat I decided to stop them by going to bed. I slept through the night and the next morning, surprisingly, I did not feel hungry at all. I felt like I did on any other morning. I had morning coffee and only water with lemon juice throughout the day. I started feeling hungry about 7:30 that evening, postponed eating a little longer, and had a normal dinner at around 9. This was mid-October. I continued alternate day fasting until Thanksgiving. I lost about a pound every two days for a total of 10 lbs. I felt great the whole time. Right before Thanksgiving I did a two day fast while planning buying and preparing my first completely Paleo Thanksgiving dinner. What was surprising to me was how natural and easy it became.
Between Thanksgiving and Christmas I went back to my 24 hour eating schedule with a few minor excursions from it based on family and guest accommodations. I did not gain back any weight during that time but stuck to my Paleo diet except for a few cocktails. Between January 1st and now I have gained close to 4 lbs back, however. I attribute this to having started doing daily body weight conditioning since New Year’s day. It has made me hungrier and probably increased muscle tone. I am going to do another stint of ADF now until I lose 10 more lbs. I plan to do a one month on, one month off schedule until I lose the 30-40 lbs I need to achieve my ideal weight. The hard part is getting started but after that if you are adapted to burning fat instead of carbs it couldn’t be easier.
I agree it’s important to listen to your body and not eat on a particular schedule just because other people say we need three meals per day, or six smalls per day. Gary Taubes told me in an email that the so-called experts are always telling fat people they must eat breakfast, but in fact people who are insulin-resistant are mostly likely to be burning body fat in the morning.
I might give this a shot too. I’m usually one to skip breakfast too and keep running until late afternoon on a big coffee with heavy cream. I notice that when I control my carbs, hunger is a lot easier to handle and goes away a lot faster. Not to mention it’ll save a bit on food bills and dishes and cooking time =P
If I ever needed proof carbs make us hungry, the ease with which I able to complete a fast after going low-carb would be it.
Great post Tom,
Great minds think alike because I have been interested in IF and decided to do one yesterday since I was home yesterday from work (it snowed in North Carolina) and surprisingly, I was not hungry and I felt very energized. After reading your post I will definitely continue to do it again.
I also dropped 2 pounds in one day. Maybe this is what I needed to break my plateau and get the rest of my weight off.
Richard Nikoley credits IF with helping him shed those last pounds. I hope it works for you too.
Rest In Peace, Major Richard “Dick” Winters of Easy Company, 206 PIR, 101st.
“Where tough men gather, he is called ‘Sir.'”
http://www.hometownannapolis.com/news/reg/2011/01/11-02/Band-of-Brothers-inspiration-Winters-dies-at-92.html
Dick Winters refused to call himself a hero, but he was. I read his book a few years ago after watching Band of Brothers. I’m watching the series again to enjoy the special features that are included on the blu-ray release. Couldn’t help choking up a bit last night while watching one of his many interviews on the DVD series. That was one helluva good man.