Raw Milk Gets Another Raw Deal

      92 Comments on Raw Milk Gets Another Raw Deal

It’s comforting to know the police in L.A. are focusing their resources on dangerous criminals. Here’s the opening of a Los Angeles Times story about a recent police raid:

With no warning one weekday morning, investigators entered an organic grocery with a search warrant and ordered the hemp-clad workers to put down their buckets of mashed coconut cream and to step away from the nuts.

Then, guns drawn, four officers fanned out across Rawesome Foods in Venice. Skirting past the arugula and peering under crates of zucchini, they found the raid’s target inside a walk-in refrigerator: unmarked jugs of raw milk.

Yup, guns drawn and everything.  Apparently the police were warned about the extreme violence that breaks out when hemp-clad owners of organic-food stores are facing arrest.   I heard one cop who raided an organic  joint required a small band-aid on his nose after an angry employee threw a sandal at him.

You can see some footage of the raid as well as some interesting discussion in this video:

Since this incident involves governments and regulations, I’m gong to step up on my political soapbox for moment.  You’ve been warned.

I agree with Mr. Hemminger that the big agri-business corporations push for these regulations to shut down independent suppliers and limit our choices. But what Mr. Hemminger didn’t mention is that the real problem here isn’t corporate power; it’s government power. Without government, corporate power is pretty limited.

A few years ago, I watched a stupid left-wing documentary that compared corporations to sociopaths. As an example, the filmmakers showed how a company that builds water systems moved into a small country and then (according to their narrative) made it illegal for people to collect their own water.  This prompted me to scream at the TV, “How the @#$% can a corporation make anything illegal?!  Corporations can’t pass laws!  The @#$%ing government passed the law!  The @#$%ing government enforced the law!”

The filmmakers’ preferred solution, naturally, was to turn water collection over to “the people” … in other words, the government — the same government that already proved itself corrupt by making it illegal for citizens to collect water. Yeah, that’ll make a difference.

The same principle applies in this case. It doesn’t matter if evil executives at MegaMilk, Inc. want to shut down raw-milk producers; without government, they can’t do it.

The bigger the government, the more opportunity there is for corruption, because corruption is the bastard child of government power.  Power gives you something to sell.  Has a corporation ever tried to bribe you? Your grandmother? Your best friend? Of course not, because you don’t have the power to do anything for them — such as outlaw their competition and call it a “health and safety” regulation. But get yourself appointed to a regulations-writing committee and suddenly your phone will never stop ringing.

It’s not a matter of just convincing the regulators to write the “correct” laws. If they have the power to outlaw products you don’t like, they also have the power to outlaw products you do like. The reality of the situation is that MegaMilk will always be able to offer them a sweeter deal than you or I can. The solution is to take away their power to regulate which products supposedly free adults in a supposedly free country can buy, period. Until we wise up and do that, we’d better get used to scenes like this one.

But in the meantime, I have an idea for how we can make these onerous regulations work in our favor:

Prohibition made The Mafia. Yes, organized crime existed before, but it was Prohibition that made previously small-time gangsters rich and powerful. Legal or illegal, people wanted liquor and were willing to pay for it. So when our government made it illegal for Anheuser Busch and Johnny Walker to take money from drinkers, Al Capone took it instead. He and the other gangsters soon became wealthy enough to hire their own armies and bribe the police to look the other way. (After all, the police had the power to shut them down and were therefore worth corrupting.)

So, here’s what we do: we need to make raw milk incredibly popular, albeit in an underground sort of way. At social gatherings, we can slide up next to the movers and shakers and offer them a hip-flask of the stuff. Raw milk is irresistibly delicious, so we know they’ll want more. After they’re hooked and spread the word, we can open a few Milkeasys in the big cities, complete with milk taps, jazz bands, and a nice selection of raw-milk cheeses.

Once raw milk becomes the new bootleg liquor, today’s small-time producers will become the new Milk Mafia. Newspapers will run scandalous stories about the crimes and extravagant lifestyles of Joey “Milk Moustache” Bambano and Harold “Baby Burp” Nelson. There might even be a shootout or two in Chicago, with raw milk flying everywhere.

Oh, sure, the government will put together a special task force of G-men to harass the new milk lords, but their successes will probably be limited to a few P.R. stunts … the G-men taking an axe to some confiscated jugs of raw milk, that sort of thing. (Let’s just hope they don’t poison the milk and kill a few thousand unsuspecting drinkers, like they did with liquor in the 1930s … yes, our government actually did that.)

The point is, the Milk Mafia will make sure we get our raw milk.  Everyone will know who the local supplier is. (Okay, buddy, just walk over to that door, tap on the sliding window and say “Cream rises to the top.”)  Eventually, raw-milk farmers will be rich enough to bribe the politicians and police to look the other way.  We might even learn a few cops are drinking the stuff when no one’s looking. 

Best of all, the Milk Mafia will have the money to recruit some armed thugs as enforcers.  That way, when the police decide to kick down a door and bust someone for selling raw milk, they’ll actually need those guns.


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92 thoughts on “Raw Milk Gets Another Raw Deal

  1. mezzo

    The land of the free and the home of the brave??? What has it morphed into I wonder? How about a good dose of the old pilgrim fathers’ spirit and back to the roots of what made America great? I am sure you still got it in you somewhere!

    There are days when I wonder what country I’m in. If Thomas Jefferson were alive today, he’d be shooting at someone.

    I moved to Tennessee partly because California is run by big-government fascists. I’m not ready to leave the country yet, but I can at least live in a sane part of it.

  2. Trish

    If you consider Tennessee a “sane” state I fear for you. I know you live in the Nashville area but eastern Tennessee is full of self-righteous bible thumpers. It’s cheap, though.

    Both left AND right take money from the corporations. The left, however, want to cushion and baby everyone. The right just wants to make money and get re-elected. And we’re the schlubs in the middle. If I believed, I’d say “God help us all.”

    That’s why I want government power reduced, period. Too many people on both the right and the left are perfectly comfortable with intrusive government, as long their side is in control.

    There may be bible-thumpers in eastern Tennessee, but as far as I can tell they have no effect on my life. Not the case with the big-government weenies in California.

  3. mezzo

    The land of the free and the home of the brave??? What has it morphed into I wonder? How about a good dose of the old pilgrim fathers’ spirit and back to the roots of what made America great? I am sure you still got it in you somewhere!

    There are days when I wonder what country I’m in. If Thomas Jefferson were alive today, he’d be shooting at someone.

    I moved to Tennessee partly because California is run by big-government fascists. I’m not ready to leave the country yet, but I can at least live in a sane part of it.

  4. Bullinachinashop

    Reminds me of a time when margarine was illegal in Quebec. Small shop owners were routinely getting raided to catch the stuff. To this day, margarine can not be sold while colored like butter (not that I like margarine, but it’s still stupid. The label says MARGARINE, and I’m educated enough to know it doesn’t say BUTTER).

    So sorry to hear California has become like Quebec….we always have some new stupid thing leftists demand while they watch head offices move to Toronto.

    If margarine was illegal, someone who sells butter was behind it.

  5. nonegiven

    I can’t seem to find the video

    It shows up for me, and in two different browsers.

  6. Trish

    If you consider Tennessee a “sane” state I fear for you. I know you live in the Nashville area but eastern Tennessee is full of self-righteous bible thumpers. It’s cheap, though.

    Both left AND right take money from the corporations. The left, however, want to cushion and baby everyone. The right just wants to make money and get re-elected. And we’re the schlubs in the middle. If I believed, I’d say “God help us all.”

    That’s why I want government power reduced, period. Too many people on both the right and the left are perfectly comfortable with intrusive government, as long their side is in control.

    There may be bible-thumpers in eastern Tennessee, but as far as I can tell they have no effect on my life. Not the case with the big-government weenies in California.

  7. Dave, RN

    I don’t get thier motivation. When I visited CA in the spring, I was able to buy raw milk at a health food store. If I can buy it at a health-food store, what ‘s the problem with this establishment?

    Beats me. Maybe it’s some kind of local regulation.

  8. Ramona Denton

    I’m in the market for a good state to live in, but I don’t even know the first thing about choosing one by these standards…

    The Weston A. Price foundation site lists information on raw-milk laws around the country.

  9. Lori

    From the article by Deborah Blum,

    “Rigorous enforcement had managed to slow the smuggling of alcohol from Canada and other countries. But crime syndicates responded by stealing massive quantities of industrial alcohol—used in paints and solvents, fuels and medical supplies—and redistilling it to make it potable.”

    Not a few people died or were blinded or disabled by these alcohols as well. (Ever heard of “bad liquor”?) If you got some bad liquor, there was nobody in the legal system to complain to, and a lot of people who were unsympathetic to your problem. The irony: well-off, well-connected people got the good stuff. As usual, the poor got the brunt of it.

    Ms. Blum wrote about this (among other things) in The Poisoner’s Handbook, which I found a fascinating read.

    I’m not a big drinker of either milk or gin, but I’m down with raw cheese, jazz and jitterbugging.

    Good point. When producers are selling a legal product, they’re more likely to maintain high standards.

  10. Andrew

    I gotta ask, what else are these raw-milk hippies packing that requires a gun drawn response? They wear birkenstocks… they’re not going to shoot back.

    That’s what made this whole thing so ridiculous.

  11. Tracee

    They’ve done stings here in Texas. A lady in our area was arrested a few years back. They called her, posed as someone with severe gi issues and convinced her to sell them some raw goat milk. I feel much safer knowing the dirt roads of in our area are free from dangerous goat farmers.

    You’ve made me want to get my old bumper sticker back: “Vote Libertarian, it only feels kinky the first time.”

    Geez, that sure sounds like entrapment to me.

  12. kjd

    Of course, some of us “self-righteous bible thumpers” are also gun-toting, raw-milk drinking, small farm owning libertarians who don’t like being stereotyped anymore than anyone else does. As you said, Tom, another person’s faith (or lack thereof) doesn’t really affect me, unless he’s trying to legislate it, or some other part of his belief system. Then he can cordially piss off.

    I’m not religious, but I don’t understand the hostility towards people who are. If, as you say, they’re trying to impose their beliefs on me, then yes, I’d have a problem with that. But most of the religious conservatives I know lean libertarian and just want the government to leave us alone.

  13. Be

    LMAO. I can’t wait for the movie to come out. What are you gonna call it, ‘The Unhomogonized”?

    But seriously, you are so right – there is no such thing as a “Monopoly” unless it is supported and/or inflicted upon us by Government power. We are still talking about why FDR failed – right?

    Indeed.

  14. Bullinachinashop

    Reminds me of a time when margarine was illegal in Quebec. Small shop owners were routinely getting raided to catch the stuff. To this day, margarine can not be sold while colored like butter (not that I like margarine, but it’s still stupid. The label says MARGARINE, and I’m educated enough to know it doesn’t say BUTTER).

    So sorry to hear California has become like Quebec….we always have some new stupid thing leftists demand while they watch head offices move to Toronto.

    If margarine was illegal, someone who sells butter was behind it.

  15. Dan

    Just another example of the growing police state. If they will do this to peaceful, law-abiding workers at a raw foods store, where do the rest of us peaceful law-abiding citizens stand?

    On a recent John Stossel show, he pointed out that our government passed something like 7,000 pages of new regulations in just the previous year. A lawyer on the show said most Americans break the law regularly and don’t even know it. One guy they interviewed went to prison for selling flowers THAT HE GREW HIMSELF — because they were an “endangered species.” The poor guy had no idea. Naturally, the police showed up in SWAT gear with guns drawn.

    What are we supposed to do, read 7,000 pages of regulations every year to make sure we’re not criminals? It’s insane. This is absolutely nothing like the free society The Founders tried to create.

  16. Rocky

    One definition of an Orwellian society is one that has so many laws that any citizen can be declared a criminal and locked up at the government’s whim.

    It’s now no longer enough to be a “law abiding citizen” because the rules for doing so have become so complex that even the police don’t know them all. The best that an individual can hope for is to remain obscure.

    Compliance is the new freedom. It’s so very sad.

    We’re pretty much there. As the lawyer on Stossel’s show explained, you and I probably break laws all the time.

  17. Dave, RN

    I don’t get thier motivation. When I visited CA in the spring, I was able to buy raw milk at a health food store. If I can buy it at a health-food store, what ‘s the problem with this establishment?

    Beats me. Maybe it’s some kind of local regulation.

  18. Ramona Denton

    I’m in the market for a good state to live in, but I don’t even know the first thing about choosing one by these standards…

    The Weston A. Price foundation site lists information on raw-milk laws around the country.

  19. Lori

    From the article by Deborah Blum,

    “Rigorous enforcement had managed to slow the smuggling of alcohol from Canada and other countries. But crime syndicates responded by stealing massive quantities of industrial alcohol—used in paints and solvents, fuels and medical supplies—and redistilling it to make it potable.”

    Not a few people died or were blinded or disabled by these alcohols as well. (Ever heard of “bad liquor”?) If you got some bad liquor, there was nobody in the legal system to complain to, and a lot of people who were unsympathetic to your problem. The irony: well-off, well-connected people got the good stuff. As usual, the poor got the brunt of it.

    Ms. Blum wrote about this (among other things) in The Poisoner’s Handbook, which I found a fascinating read.

    I’m not a big drinker of either milk or gin, but I’m down with raw cheese, jazz and jitterbugging.

    Good point. When producers are selling a legal product, they’re more likely to maintain high standards.

  20. Andrew

    I gotta ask, what else are these raw-milk hippies packing that requires a gun drawn response? They wear birkenstocks… they’re not going to shoot back.

    That’s what made this whole thing so ridiculous.

  21. monasmee

    In his new book “Global Censorship of Health Information” constitutional attorney Jonathan Emord, who has defeated the Food and Drug Administration seven times in federal court, discusses how the government is complicit with the drug industry in exploiting the public. America is no longer a constitutional republic but governed by a “bureaucratic oligarchy,” he declared. The FDA is inherently biased and in favor of the pharmaceutical industry with a mission to approve as many drugs as it can, regardless of whether they are safe or needed– this according to the FDA’s own drug safety researcher David Graham, Emord noted.

    The most pressing problem about the FDA is that they are “unaccountable to the courts, Congress, and the American people,” and operate as a dictatorship, serving the self-interest of the individuals in charge of it, said Emord. The FDA also actively censors health information regarding nutrients, foods, and supplements, such as when cherry tree farmers were told they would be prosecuted if they claimed that cherries had anti-inflammatory properties, even though university studies had found that to be true, he detailed.

    The situation in Europe is a “disaster,” with the impending removal of hundreds of supplements, vitamins, and herbs, which are now considered unsafe unless proven otherwise, Emord reported. In America, “I’ve recommended we pass a bill that I wrote for Congressman Ron Paul that eliminates the FDA’s ability to impose prior restraints on health information,” but still leaving it possible to prosecute in cases where the government finds fraud, Emord stated. He added that we also need to take away the FDA’s drug approval power, and use a blind/unbiased process with university testing, in which the drug company’s name is removed from the application.

    — copied from Coast To Coast AM

    Bingo! That’s government’s legitimate job when it comes to businesses and the products they sell: prosecuting fraud. If you want to sell me a product and I want to buy it, they have no business getting involved unless you’re defrauding me.

  22. Tracee

    They’ve done stings here in Texas. A lady in our area was arrested a few years back. They called her, posed as someone with severe gi issues and convinced her to sell them some raw goat milk. I feel much safer knowing the dirt roads of in our area are free from dangerous goat farmers.

    You’ve made me want to get my old bumper sticker back: “Vote Libertarian, it only feels kinky the first time.”

    Geez, that sure sounds like entrapment to me.

  23. kjd

    Of course, some of us “self-righteous bible thumpers” are also gun-toting, raw-milk drinking, small farm owning libertarians who don’t like being stereotyped anymore than anyone else does. As you said, Tom, another person’s faith (or lack thereof) doesn’t really affect me, unless he’s trying to legislate it, or some other part of his belief system. Then he can cordially piss off.

    I’m not religious, but I don’t understand the hostility towards people who are. If, as you say, they’re trying to impose their beliefs on me, then yes, I’d have a problem with that. But most of the religious conservatives I know lean libertarian and just want the government to leave us alone.

  24. Carol Bardelli

    That’s why I live in Nevada. Even brothels and gambling are legal here. Everything is open 24 hours, 7 days a week. No personal state taxes. Advantages for businesses, including my small sole proprietorship. And where I live, there’s no community codes and regulations. If I want to decorate my front yard with rusty beer cans and paint the house psychedelic, no one can stop me.

    Reno has a dairy farm that sells raw milk, but I don’t drink milk. Now, those complimentary Bloody Marys at Terrible’s Casino, those I don’t mind.

    Wait … you mean you don’t have a lot of regulations protecting you? Aren’t people dropping dead left and right?

  25. Be

    LMAO. I can’t wait for the movie to come out. What are you gonna call it, ‘The Unhomogonized”?

    But seriously, you are so right – there is no such thing as a “Monopoly” unless it is supported and/or inflicted upon us by Government power. We are still talking about why FDR failed – right?

    Indeed.

  26. Dan

    Just another example of the growing police state. If they will do this to peaceful, law-abiding workers at a raw foods store, where do the rest of us peaceful law-abiding citizens stand?

    On a recent John Stossel show, he pointed out that our government passed something like 7,000 pages of new regulations in just the previous year. A lawyer on the show said most Americans break the law regularly and don’t even know it. One guy they interviewed went to prison for selling flowers THAT HE GREW HIMSELF — because they were an “endangered species.” The poor guy had no idea. Naturally, the police showed up in SWAT gear with guns drawn.

    What are we supposed to do, read 7,000 pages of regulations every year to make sure we’re not criminals? It’s insane. This is absolutely nothing like the free society The Founders tried to create.

  27. Jan

    Okay, yes – this was pretty…stupid. Abhorrent, even. But is it just me, or do the police in this video look like they are more than just a little chagrined, if not ashamed, to be doing this? Yeah, they’ve “gone in with their guns drawn”, but not one of them looks as if they’re serious about it.

    Which makes me wonder, where do you draw the line as far as your job is concerned? When do you say, “The law makes no sense – I’m not going to go in there and scare the bejebus out of some poor guy because the milk he sells hasn’t been pasteurized”? Can’t we have just a LITTLE perspective here?!?!?

    My head hurts.

    I’d hate to be a cop given this assignment. The root problem is the regulators and the power we’ve given them.

  28. WordVixen

    From what I understand, Rawsome isn’t a store, it’s some sort of co-op store. Instead of buying a cow or herd share, you buy a share of the business, which entitles you to a certain amount of goods contained in the business, or something like that. Since the members already own the products in the store, Rawsome didn’t obtain a license to sell the raw products (I believe including things other than milk). Technically, they don’t have to obtain a license any more than someone who sells a cow/herd share does in share legal states. But they were raided because “the government” didn’t see it as a share- they see it as a business. Because they’re the government and what they say goes.

    Funny, this just morning I was telling my husband that if Jefferson was still alive he’d either shoot himself, or he’d shoot John Adams for convincing him to get involved in the first place (he didn’t want a government and didn’t want to be a part of a government).

    That’s what I heard too; it’s a co-op. So the police are protecting people from buying products they went out of their way to buy.

  29. Rocky

    One definition of an Orwellian society is one that has so many laws that any citizen can be declared a criminal and locked up at the government’s whim.

    It’s now no longer enough to be a “law abiding citizen” because the rules for doing so have become so complex that even the police don’t know them all. The best that an individual can hope for is to remain obscure.

    Compliance is the new freedom. It’s so very sad.

    We’re pretty much there. As the lawyer on Stossel’s show explained, you and I probably break laws all the time.

  30. monasmee

    In his new book “Global Censorship of Health Information” constitutional attorney Jonathan Emord, who has defeated the Food and Drug Administration seven times in federal court, discusses how the government is complicit with the drug industry in exploiting the public. America is no longer a constitutional republic but governed by a “bureaucratic oligarchy,” he declared. The FDA is inherently biased and in favor of the pharmaceutical industry with a mission to approve as many drugs as it can, regardless of whether they are safe or needed– this according to the FDA’s own drug safety researcher David Graham, Emord noted.

    The most pressing problem about the FDA is that they are “unaccountable to the courts, Congress, and the American people,” and operate as a dictatorship, serving the self-interest of the individuals in charge of it, said Emord. The FDA also actively censors health information regarding nutrients, foods, and supplements, such as when cherry tree farmers were told they would be prosecuted if they claimed that cherries had anti-inflammatory properties, even though university studies had found that to be true, he detailed.

    The situation in Europe is a “disaster,” with the impending removal of hundreds of supplements, vitamins, and herbs, which are now considered unsafe unless proven otherwise, Emord reported. In America, “I’ve recommended we pass a bill that I wrote for Congressman Ron Paul that eliminates the FDA’s ability to impose prior restraints on health information,” but still leaving it possible to prosecute in cases where the government finds fraud, Emord stated. He added that we also need to take away the FDA’s drug approval power, and use a blind/unbiased process with university testing, in which the drug company’s name is removed from the application.

    — copied from Coast To Coast AM

    Bingo! That’s government’s legitimate job when it comes to businesses and the products they sell: prosecuting fraud. If you want to sell me a product and I want to buy it, they have no business getting involved unless you’re defrauding me.

  31. Carol Bardelli

    That’s why I live in Nevada. Even brothels and gambling are legal here. Everything is open 24 hours, 7 days a week. No personal state taxes. Advantages for businesses, including my small sole proprietorship. And where I live, there’s no community codes and regulations. If I want to decorate my front yard with rusty beer cans and paint the house psychedelic, no one can stop me.

    Reno has a dairy farm that sells raw milk, but I don’t drink milk. Now, those complimentary Bloody Marys at Terrible’s Casino, those I don’t mind.

    Wait … you mean you don’t have a lot of regulations protecting you? Aren’t people dropping dead left and right?

  32. Jan

    Okay, yes – this was pretty…stupid. Abhorrent, even. But is it just me, or do the police in this video look like they are more than just a little chagrined, if not ashamed, to be doing this? Yeah, they’ve “gone in with their guns drawn”, but not one of them looks as if they’re serious about it.

    Which makes me wonder, where do you draw the line as far as your job is concerned? When do you say, “The law makes no sense – I’m not going to go in there and scare the bejebus out of some poor guy because the milk he sells hasn’t been pasteurized”? Can’t we have just a LITTLE perspective here?!?!?

    My head hurts.

    I’d hate to be a cop given this assignment. The root problem is the regulators and the power we’ve given them.

  33. WordVixen

    From what I understand, Rawsome isn’t a store, it’s some sort of co-op store. Instead of buying a cow or herd share, you buy a share of the business, which entitles you to a certain amount of goods contained in the business, or something like that. Since the members already own the products in the store, Rawsome didn’t obtain a license to sell the raw products (I believe including things other than milk). Technically, they don’t have to obtain a license any more than someone who sells a cow/herd share does in share legal states. But they were raided because “the government” didn’t see it as a share- they see it as a business. Because they’re the government and what they say goes.

    Funny, this just morning I was telling my husband that if Jefferson was still alive he’d either shoot himself, or he’d shoot John Adams for convincing him to get involved in the first place (he didn’t want a government and didn’t want to be a part of a government).

    That’s what I heard too; it’s a co-op. So the police are protecting people from buying products they went out of their way to buy.

  34. Ann Marie @ CHEESESLAVE

    WordVixen is right.

    Rawesome is a “private buying club”. If you want to buy anything from them (or even enter the store for that matter) you have to sign a contract and pay an annual fee. You don’t make your check out to “Rawesome”; you make it out to cash.

    I am guessing that what they are really upset about is that Rawesome brings in raw milk from an Amish farm. They really don’t like interstate trafficking of raw milk.

    That’s actually a funny image … interstate trafficking of raw milk. I wonder when the cops will start finding raw milk hidden inside of fake beer trucks?

  35. TonyNZ

    “if Jefferson was still alive he’d either shoot himself, or he’d shoot John Adams for convincing him to get involved in the first place.”

    Wouldn’t he already be dead from the unpasteurised milk they would have been drinking in those days?

    Speaking of which, we are calving now, which means milking cows, which means raw milk galore for the next 9 months.
    But I’ll be criticallly ill from the unpasturised nature of it…
    That’ll learn me.

    I wish I could raid your refrigerator.

  36. Shelley

    My brain just did that thing where you’re so taken aback by what you’ve just seen that you just go “what…???” and it takes a few seconds to register what was going on. Talk about a totally ludicrous situation. It just defies belief. And what is so wrong about raw milk anyway? I grew up on a dairy farm, and that’s what we drunk every day. Every morning one of us would go over to the cowshed to get a billy full of milk from the vat before the milk tanker came to collect it.

    My brothers and sisters and I (there are 8 of us!) are all fit and healthy adults. Obviously I can’t say whether the raw milk had anything to do with that, but it certainly didn’t hurt us!

    What’s “wrong” with raw milk is that it competes with the established milk producers. That’s what’s driving this.

  37. Jo

    Wow what an amazing story. I’m on quite a few American based forums and I’m often surprised when on the one hand I hear about American ‘freedom’ while also hearing about people’s liberties being curtailed. Did you notice how often George Bush Jnr used the word ‘freedom’ in his speeches? Seems to me that the more he used the word the more freedoms you lost. Just an opinion from across the pond. At least we know we are oppressed. LOL.

    That George guy sounds interesting – might look into his story a bit more.

    We’ve reached an unfortunate stage in our history where most citizens still think they believe in freedom, yet support regulatating everyone and everything they don’t personally like. They seem believe it’s not a violation of freedom if the majority votes for the regulation because hey, that’s democracy in action. What they conveniently forget is that the Constitution and especially the Bill of Rigths were designed specifically to protect individuals from the whims of majorities.

  38. Ann Marie @ CHEESESLAVE

    WordVixen is right.

    Rawesome is a “private buying club”. If you want to buy anything from them (or even enter the store for that matter) you have to sign a contract and pay an annual fee. You don’t make your check out to “Rawesome”; you make it out to cash.

    I am guessing that what they are really upset about is that Rawesome brings in raw milk from an Amish farm. They really don’t like interstate trafficking of raw milk.

    That’s actually a funny image … interstate trafficking of raw milk. I wonder when the cops will start finding raw milk hidden inside of fake beer trucks?

  39. TonyNZ

    “if Jefferson was still alive he’d either shoot himself, or he’d shoot John Adams for convincing him to get involved in the first place.”

    Wouldn’t he already be dead from the unpasteurised milk they would have been drinking in those days?

    Speaking of which, we are calving now, which means milking cows, which means raw milk galore for the next 9 months.
    But I’ll be criticallly ill from the unpasturised nature of it…
    That’ll learn me.

    I wish I could raid your refrigerator.

  40. Shelley

    My brain just did that thing where you’re so taken aback by what you’ve just seen that you just go “what…???” and it takes a few seconds to register what was going on. Talk about a totally ludicrous situation. It just defies belief. And what is so wrong about raw milk anyway? I grew up on a dairy farm, and that’s what we drunk every day. Every morning one of us would go over to the cowshed to get a billy full of milk from the vat before the milk tanker came to collect it.

    My brothers and sisters and I (there are 8 of us!) are all fit and healthy adults. Obviously I can’t say whether the raw milk had anything to do with that, but it certainly didn’t hurt us!

    What’s “wrong” with raw milk is that it competes with the established milk producers. That’s what’s driving this.

  41. Jo

    Wow what an amazing story. I’m on quite a few American based forums and I’m often surprised when on the one hand I hear about American ‘freedom’ while also hearing about people’s liberties being curtailed. Did you notice how often George Bush Jnr used the word ‘freedom’ in his speeches? Seems to me that the more he used the word the more freedoms you lost. Just an opinion from across the pond. At least we know we are oppressed. LOL.

    That George guy sounds interesting – might look into his story a bit more.

    We’ve reached an unfortunate stage in our history where most citizens still think they believe in freedom, yet support regulatating everyone and everything they don’t personally like. They seem believe it’s not a violation of freedom if the majority votes for the regulation because hey, that’s democracy in action. What they conveniently forget is that the Constitution and especially the Bill of Rigths were designed specifically to protect individuals from the whims of majorities.

  42. Shelley

    Haha Tony, yeah, I’m a Kiwi. You know, I don’t think I’ve mentioned the word “billy” with regards to milk for many, many years. It’s funny what slips out when you’re remembering a scenario from the past!

  43. Merope

    Honestly, didn’t anyone catch the little bit about how they could have done this legally “with a licence”? Ok, so maybe those are prohibitively expensive or something, but they *were not* doing this legally.

    But I agree the guns were way over the top. That looked very scary. But that seems a police procedural issue, here (Norway) guns are not routinely even carried. Thus they never would have been drawn for something like this. If guns were drawn in this kind of situation, there would have been a huge media outcry that would totally overshadow the other issues, and probably some cops would have lost their jobs.

    And there have been “raids” on cow-shares here, too, because cow-shares are forbidden. The rules are baroque.

    Licensing is another way governments deny supposedly free adults from making voluntary exchanges. One of the states — can’t remember which off the top of my head — technically allows raw-milk sales by licensed producers, but has never issued a license.

    In Illinois some years back, the state made it illegal to BRAID HAIR FOR MONEY without a beautician’s license. Apparently legislators heard about all those people going to emergency rooms with bad braids.

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