Take a look at this PBS video sent to me by one of our readers – and try not to punch your monitor near the end:
So close …
Okay, let’s focus on the positive for now. I was delighted to hear one of the on-screen experts explain that high glucose levels appear to cause repeated injury to the kidneys.
Well-meaning people have tried to warn me over that a “high protein” diet is hard on the kidneys. Why? Because damaged kidneys leak protein. But that doesn’t mean protein is causing the damage. If your kitchen pipes start leaking water, do you assume the damage was caused by water? Of course not. The kidneys are damaged by excess glucose, and then they leak protein.
I was delighted again to hear a researcher explain that ketones can be used as an alternate energy source by most cells in the body, and that on a ketogenic diet the body switches from being primarily a glucose-metabolizing machine to a fat-and-ketone metabolizing machine.
As I like to explain it to people, you can be sugar-burner or a fat-burner. I find life as a fat-burner much more pleasant … more consistent energy, better mood, no more creeping weight gain, and no more ravenous hunger if I skip a meal. As I write this, I’m 23 hours into a 24-hour intermittent fasting day, and I feel fine.
I was delighted yet again when the researchers speculated that removing glucose from the picture might help the kidneys recover, then discovered that putting mice on a ketogenic diet did indeed reverse the kidney damage caused by diabetes. Sure, it’s just a rodent study with results that may or may not apply to humans, but as the researcher said, it’s a proof of principle, an avenue to be explored.
All right! Cool! Great story so far. I was anxiously waiting for the part where he suggests we try the same diet on diabetic humans with damaged kidneys in a clinical trial.
And that’s when it all went south:
But the researchers are quick to point out that what happened to the mice does not mean that people with kidney disease should switch to a high fat diet, which could cause other health problems.
Say what?! A diet that reverses kidney damage is going to kill you by … doing what, exactly? Giving you heart disesae? Are you telling me we’re going to examine these startling results through the lens of the ancient and discredited Lipid Hypothesis?
Yes, apparently we are.
“We don’t want to put anyone on the diet itself. We just want to figure out how the diet works so that we can replicate the effects of the diet in a drug.”
Head. Bang. On. Desk.
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Two quotes just ruin the whole video. “We don’t want to put people on this diet, we want to develop a drug that will mimic it’s effects”. And “we know this works with mice but we don’t know if it will work with humans”. There is tons of info out there that proves that it does work with humans. Will it reverse kidney damage – I don’t know. But a ketogenic diet certainly will drastically lower the odds of the damage occurring in the first place. Duh!
We’ve all been told so many times that a high-fat diet will cause heart disease, most people just assume it’s a known fact with lots of research to back it up.
These scientists are well aware that the fat/heart disease paradigm is flawed. At the same time they have to protect their paychecks from Big Ag and Big Pharma.
Hi Tom
I watched the Sloan-Kettering “Why Don’t We All Get Cancer” Youtube presentation again today – http://youtu.be/WUlE1VHGA40.
The message I got is that a cell – part of the 100 trillion cells that make up our body! – will grow only when it has been told to do so, and that GLUCOSE is available as fuel.
Cynthia Kenyon has demonstrated that high level of insulin is a signal for cells to grow, via the insulin and IgF receptors on the cell membrane that are expressed by the D2 gene. She also showed that the same insulin signaling suppresses the action of the FOXO gene, which is responsible for cellular maintenance, immune response enhancement, and cellular death.
AS far as I am concerned, we have the smoking gun linking carbohydrates overdose with cancer. I also believe that a ketogenic diet should be mandatory in a cancer treatment regime.
I second that.
@Janknitz Carbage! I love it.
@Janknitz Carbage! I love it.
Tom,
I have to respond to this one. I just recently got the news that a good friend of mine has been diagnosed with chronic kidney disease. His disease has progressed to the stage where the doctors have told him that within 2-3 months, he would need to begin dialysis until a kidney became available for transplant. He told me (via text) that he was on a strict diet. I am going out to lunch with him today; he hasn’t told me what his strict diet was yet.
I know what I’m going to hear. He’s going to tell me the doctors said low protein, low fat, and plenty of whole grains. I know it. There’s a sick feeling in my stomach and I know with almost certainty this is what he will tell me.
Now, I don’t tell many people about all of the details if this new lifestyle I’ve adapted. I tell my wife because, well, she’s my wife. But if I try to tell people I’m HFLC, I IF 5 out of every 7 days, I eat in a 4-hour window, etc, I just get the feeling people will think I’m insane. So, I tell them, if asked, that I’m doing Atkins, just to make things simple.
But I feel compelled to talk to my buddy about this, considering we are talking about serious health complications here. What if his doctors have given him the above diet? I’m stuck between keeping my mouth shut and not overstepping my boundaries and being racked with guilt about not telling him some of the things I know. How do you think I should handle this? And there’s this big part of me that thinks that even if I explain to him all these health benefits, he will dismiss me since, you know, I’m not a doctor, so what do I know?
On a side note, I’m not sure if they are related or not (probably are), but my friend has always been overweight, unhealthy, starchy food and beer consumer, etc. I’m sure the sugars and grains he’s been ingesting for 31 (chronic kidney disease at 31!) years have wreaked havoc on his kidneys.
Any advice you have is helpful. Have you ever felt compelled to give someone medical advice for their benefit? How have you approached it?
Yes, I’ve been in that position. I approach the topic once and only once. If there are some initial yeah-butts, I explain the science — once. If I realize I’m dealing with someone who is determined to maintain the same old beliefs, I zip it and keep it zipped.
Tom,
I have to respond to this one. I just recently got the news that a good friend of mine has been diagnosed with chronic kidney disease. His disease has progressed to the stage where the doctors have told him that within 2-3 months, he would need to begin dialysis until a kidney became available for transplant. He told me (via text) that he was on a strict diet. I am going out to lunch with him today; he hasn’t told me what his strict diet was yet.
I know what I’m going to hear. He’s going to tell me the doctors said low protein, low fat, and plenty of whole grains. I know it. There’s a sick feeling in my stomach and I know with almost certainty this is what he will tell me.
Now, I don’t tell many people about all of the details if this new lifestyle I’ve adapted. I tell my wife because, well, she’s my wife. But if I try to tell people I’m HFLC, I IF 5 out of every 7 days, I eat in a 4-hour window, etc, I just get the feeling people will think I’m insane. So, I tell them, if asked, that I’m doing Atkins, just to make things simple.
But I feel compelled to talk to my buddy about this, considering we are talking about serious health complications here. What if his doctors have given him the above diet? I’m stuck between keeping my mouth shut and not overstepping my boundaries and being racked with guilt about not telling him some of the things I know. How do you think I should handle this? And there’s this big part of me that thinks that even if I explain to him all these health benefits, he will dismiss me since, you know, I’m not a doctor, so what do I know?
On a side note, I’m not sure if they are related or not (probably are), but my friend has always been overweight, unhealthy, starchy food and beer consumer, etc. I’m sure the sugars and grains he’s been ingesting for 31 (chronic kidney disease at 31!) years have wreaked havoc on his kidneys.
Any advice you have is helpful. Have you ever felt compelled to give someone medical advice for their benefit? How have you approached it?
Yes, I’ve been in that position. I approach the topic once and only once. If there are some initial yeah-butts, I explain the science — once. If I realize I’m dealing with someone who is determined to maintain the same old beliefs, I zip it and keep it zipped.
At approximately 1 minute, the guy says, “this one molecule is the universal source of energy … all biological creatures have evolved to optimize the use of glucose.” Is that even true? Maybe I’m confusing it with, “all creatures run optimally on glucose.”
Perhaps they all can use glucose, but that doesn’t mean we have to base our on diets on sugary or starchy foods. We evolved to make glucose as needed from protein.
Lol, I love the LA Times article headline at 5:26 “High-fat diet is awful, but it may reverse diabetes-related kidney damage”
Also, why is a diabetes researcher surprised that a diet that restricts glucose results in improved glucose levels? I mean, what the hell did he expect?
Good question.
At approximately 1 minute, the guy says, “this one molecule is the universal source of energy … all biological creatures have evolved to optimize the use of glucose.” Is that even true? Maybe I’m confusing it with, “all creatures run optimally on glucose.”
Perhaps they all can use glucose, but that doesn’t mean we have to base our on diets on sugary or starchy foods. We evolved to make glucose as needed from protein.
The Grains Foundation is starting to hit back hard. They have a new FaceBook page that I predict is going to start to explode with anti-grain comments.
http://www.facebook.com/#!/GoWithTheGrain
They’re already getting slammed in comments. We’ll see how long that Facebook account stays up.
Lol, I love the LA Times article headline at 5:26 “High-fat diet is awful, but it may reverse diabetes-related kidney damage”
Also, why is a diabetes researcher surprised that a diet that restricts glucose results in improved glucose levels? I mean, what the hell did he expect?
Good question.
Woah woah woah. A lot of obese rats in this world are probably celebrating that they now know how to cure their obesity problems. The research, results and interpretation thereof was well worth it……..for them.
There is that benefit.
The Grains Foundation is starting to hit back hard. They have a new FaceBook page that I predict is going to start to explode with anti-grain comments.
http://www.facebook.com/#!/GoWithTheGrain
They’re already getting slammed in comments. We’ll see how long that Facebook account stays up.
Tom, better pad your desk again:
http://todayhealth.today.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/02/12/10389613-cake-for-breakfast-study-says-go-for-it
I’ve tried to find the full study on this one and couldn’t, save for an offer to buy it for $40.
Woah woah woah. A lot of obese rats in this world are probably celebrating that they now know how to cure their obesity problems. The research, results and interpretation thereof was well worth it……..for them.
There is that benefit.
Tom, better pad your desk again:
http://todayhealth.today.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/02/12/10389613-cake-for-breakfast-study-says-go-for-it
I’ve tried to find the full study on this one and couldn’t, save for an offer to buy it for $40.
Another possible benefit to intermittent fasting is beta cell healing through prolonged lowering of blood glucose levels.
A typical person (or someone new to a low-carb lifestyle) may quite literally never have been in a true fasting state for more than eight or ten hours during their entire life. By fasting for 24 hours (or even longer if one’s condition supports it; my longest fast has been six days), prolonged exposure to BG in the 70’s or low 80’s can help those beta cells that are dysfunctional but not yet dead to become functional again. The net effect of intermittent fasting can be a quicker reduction in insulin resistance as a result of increased beta cell function.
It’s true that fasting is effortless once one breaks the carb addiction. I’m no hungrier after a six day water fast than I would have been by 11:00 am on a typical high-carb day, eagerly awaiting my lunch time carb fix.
My longest fast so far has been about 40 hours. I may give a longer fast a shot one of these days. I find the 24-hour fast remarkably easy, going from dinner one night to dinner the next.
“We just want to figure out how the diet works so that we can replicate the effects of the diet in a drug.”
Translation: Our research is either being funded by a drug company or we’re hoping for a big research grant from one.
@Tim, I had exactly that BS in my morning local news(I live in Florida). They referred to some(they didn’t say which one) Israel scientists research about health benefits of fats and protein for a breakfast. How somebody conclude that eating cake would be a good example of such macro-nutrients combination, I don’t know. Probably still better than sugary cereal with a fat-free milk, but still too high on carbs and too low in proteins. They also mentioned a research that females are more attracted to males with a healthy face complexion than with masculine face features. How to get rosy cheeks? Easy – eat your 5 servings of fruits and veggies. We pay too much for that nonsense. It is definitely generated by some brained-damaged people or they just despise their listeners.
I LOVE telling people about your movie. But lately, I think people are getting more hostile about their eating habits and exercise programs, so I’ve held back a little bit. I do have a couple of converts out there and that makes me happy. And I munch on my bacon for breakfast while I watch one co-worker eat three Special K bars and listen to another (who is my age, late 20s and morbidly obese) talk about how she has a goal to do pilates five times per week while I decide which two days I’m going to go do my slow burn this week. And that doesn’t bug me a lot, although I’d love to make their goals easier by sharing what I know. What is difficult for me is watching my wonderful mother basically fall apart after years and years of eating whole grains, cutting back on fats and indulging in low-fat sweets when her hunger gets the best of her. She can barely work or walk thanks to arthritis, her memory is failing more frequently and she gets tired so easily but she wouldn’t for a minute skip her Kashi bar in the morning for a couple of eggs and some fruit. That’s difficult.
It’s tough to watch people harm themselves with what they think is a good diet. But some people are determined to maintain their existing beliefs, so we just have to let them go.
@ Rocky, following your example may put somebody in a trouble. I wouldn’t advice just everyone to go and stop eating for 6 days in order to heal or not b-cells. In many IR people it will produce excessive glucose production by the liver. Probably, every household should keep in a possession a glucose-meter and check which eating regiment causing what result. Folks, please keep in mind that different things may work differently for different people. Body is very complex, do your own research..
Another possible benefit to intermittent fasting is beta cell healing through prolonged lowering of blood glucose levels.
A typical person (or someone new to a low-carb lifestyle) may quite literally never have been in a true fasting state for more than eight or ten hours during their entire life. By fasting for 24 hours (or even longer if one’s condition supports it; my longest fast has been six days), prolonged exposure to BG in the 70’s or low 80’s can help those beta cells that are dysfunctional but not yet dead to become functional again. The net effect of intermittent fasting can be a quicker reduction in insulin resistance as a result of increased beta cell function.
It’s true that fasting is effortless once one breaks the carb addiction. I’m no hungrier after a six day water fast than I would have been by 11:00 am on a typical high-carb day, eagerly awaiting my lunch time carb fix.
My longest fast so far has been about 40 hours. I may give a longer fast a shot one of these days. I find the 24-hour fast remarkably easy, going from dinner one night to dinner the next.
“We just want to figure out how the diet works so that we can replicate the effects of the diet in a drug.”
Translation: Our research is either being funded by a drug company or we’re hoping for a big research grant from one.
This is the latest ‘Healthy’ advice from an article in one of two of Melbourne’s (Australia) most read newspapers. They are that far of the mark it is infuriating that they get to publish this stuff and possibly influence people’s life.
http://www.theage.com.au/lifestyle/cuisine/healthier-nuts-to-that-20120211-1svps.html
And here’s the worst part: one of the doctors Jimmy Moore interviewed (can’t remember which) said the typical doctor’s nutrition advice is based on the same newspaper and magazine articles everyone else reads.
@Tim, I had exactly that BS in my morning local news(I live in Florida). They referred to some(they didn’t say which one) Israel scientists research about health benefits of fats and protein for a breakfast. How somebody conclude that eating cake would be a good example of such macro-nutrients combination, I don’t know. Probably still better than sugary cereal with a fat-free milk, but still too high on carbs and too low in proteins. They also mentioned a research that females are more attracted to males with a healthy face complexion than with masculine face features. How to get rosy cheeks? Easy – eat your 5 servings of fruits and veggies. We pay too much for that nonsense. It is definitely generated by some brained-damaged people or they just despise their listeners.
I LOVE telling people about your movie. But lately, I think people are getting more hostile about their eating habits and exercise programs, so I’ve held back a little bit. I do have a couple of converts out there and that makes me happy. And I munch on my bacon for breakfast while I watch one co-worker eat three Special K bars and listen to another (who is my age, late 20s and morbidly obese) talk about how she has a goal to do pilates five times per week while I decide which two days I’m going to go do my slow burn this week. And that doesn’t bug me a lot, although I’d love to make their goals easier by sharing what I know. What is difficult for me is watching my wonderful mother basically fall apart after years and years of eating whole grains, cutting back on fats and indulging in low-fat sweets when her hunger gets the best of her. She can barely work or walk thanks to arthritis, her memory is failing more frequently and she gets tired so easily but she wouldn’t for a minute skip her Kashi bar in the morning for a couple of eggs and some fruit. That’s difficult.
It’s tough to watch people harm themselves with what they think is a good diet. But some people are determined to maintain their existing beliefs, so we just have to let them go.
@ Rocky, following your example may put somebody in a trouble. I wouldn’t advice just everyone to go and stop eating for 6 days in order to heal or not b-cells. In many IR people it will produce excessive glucose production by the liver. Probably, every household should keep in a possession a glucose-meter and check which eating regiment causing what result. Folks, please keep in mind that different things may work differently for different people. Body is very complex, do your own research..
This is the latest ‘Healthy’ advice from an article in one of two of Melbourne’s (Australia) most read newspapers. They are that far of the mark it is infuriating that they get to publish this stuff and possibly influence people’s life.
http://www.theage.com.au/lifestyle/cuisine/healthier-nuts-to-that-20120211-1svps.html
And here’s the worst part: one of the doctors Jimmy Moore interviewed (can’t remember which) said the typical doctor’s nutrition advice is based on the same newspaper and magazine articles everyone else reads.
@GalinaL.
I agree that having a glucose meter provides necessary feedback; however, fasting is not at all likely to increase blood glucose beyond what a typical pre-diabetic (or diabetic) experiences on a daily basis. On the other hand, if you are on medication for blood sugar control, you DO need to measure and adjust your medications accordingly, which may require an MD’s supervision.
Go with grain…if you want to be fat and diabetic. (which I posted on their FB page)
My comments on fasting were not meant as a blanket endorsement of long-term fasting for everyone. Clearly, only if one’s condition supports such fasting would it be advisable.
And I believe everyone, no matter their condition, should own and regularly use a glucose meter, whether fasting or not. Otherwise, one is just speculating about effective BG control.
@GalinaL.
I agree that having a glucose meter provides necessary feedback; however, fasting is not at all likely to increase blood glucose beyond what a typical pre-diabetic (or diabetic) experiences on a daily basis. On the other hand, if you are on medication for blood sugar control, you DO need to measure and adjust your medications accordingly, which may require an MD’s supervision.
Go with grain…if you want to be fat and diabetic. (which I posted on their FB page)
My comments on fasting were not meant as a blanket endorsement of long-term fasting for everyone. Clearly, only if one’s condition supports such fasting would it be advisable.
And I believe everyone, no matter their condition, should own and regularly use a glucose meter, whether fasting or not. Otherwise, one is just speculating about effective BG control.
@Galena, you beat me to the punch. I’ve eaten low carb for two years, I’m healthy, not diabetic, and all my hormones are normal, but I feel lousy if I don’t eat three meals a day. Eating a huge meal at one sitting gives me a stomach ache. Dr. Atkins and Dr. Briffa both advise(d) their patients to eat when hungry, and that advice has worked well for me.
@Galena, you beat me to the punch. I’ve eaten low carb for two years, I’m healthy, not diabetic, and all my hormones are normal, but I feel lousy if I don’t eat three meals a day. Eating a huge meal at one sitting gives me a stomach ache. Dr. Atkins and Dr. Briffa both advise(d) their patients to eat when hungry, and that advice has worked well for me.
“We don’t want to put anyone on the diet itself. We just want to figure out how the diet works so that we can replicate the effects of the diet in a drug.”
What the f***in’ f***?
“We don’t want to put anyone on the diet itself. We just want to figure out how the diet works so that we can replicate the effects of the diet in a drug.”
What the f***in’ f***?
As no one appears to listen to me when I tell them how I have lost weight and improved my health, and I am a bit short of work at present, I have decided to change my tack. I’m going to promote ‘heart healthy grains’, till I am blue in the face. I’m not going to eat them myself however.
Did I mention that I’m a Probate Manager with a firm of Solicitors? (Sound of laughter floating around Surrey).
It’s not only Big Pharm and Big Agric that would be affected by a healthier population
As no one appears to listen to me when I tell them how I have lost weight and improved my health, and I am a bit short of work at present, I have decided to change my tack. I’m going to promote ‘heart healthy grains’, till I am blue in the face. I’m not going to eat them myself however.
Did I mention that I’m a Probate Manager with a firm of Solicitors? (Sound of laughter floating around Surrey).
It’s not only Big Pharm and Big Agric that would be affected by a healthier population
Everyone wants to bash those researchers, but they are just trying to show their results and yet save their jobs.
Everyone should be jumping for joy that their research came to those conclusions. They are researchers not Physicians and they must protect their “butts” or get sued out of them…. lol
Big Pharma, agri, etc run our gov and what is put out on the airwaves, use your head and direct your anger where it should go.
Eat Paleo, atkins, anti-inflamm, etc and stay away from all the corn/wheat crap that is shoved onto us all day everyday.
It’s more a problem with nutrition dogma than with them specifically.
Everyone wants to bash those researchers, but they are just trying to show their results and yet save their jobs.
Everyone should be jumping for joy that their research came to those conclusions. They are researchers not Physicians and they must protect their “butts” or get sued out of them…. lol
Big Pharma, agri, etc run our gov and what is put out on the airwaves, use your head and direct your anger where it should go.
Eat Paleo, atkins, anti-inflamm, etc and stay away from all the corn/wheat crap that is shoved onto us all day everyday.
It’s more a problem with nutrition dogma than with them specifically.
About 8 or so years ago my husband, in his quest for wanting to lose weight fast, went on the Atkins diet. And yes, Mr. Scientist, it worked. My husband is a human being.
About 8 or so years ago my husband, in his quest for wanting to lose weight fast, went on the Atkins diet. And yes, Mr. Scientist, it worked. My husband is a human being.
For those suffering from chronic kidney disease and wants to improve their kidney function, try Far Infrared Sauna that helps detox ammonia, urea and creatinine through sweat. It’s pretty straightforward – take a blood test for kidney function before and after 4-5 sessions of Far Infrared Sauna and compare the results for yourself!
For those suffering from chronic kidney disease and wants to improve their kidney function, try Far Infrared Sauna that helps detox ammonia, urea and creatinine through sweat. It’s pretty straightforward – take a blood test for kidney function before and after 4-5 sessions of Far Infrared Sauna and compare the results for yourself!
The Lipid Hypothesis is alive and well in Australia!!! (unfortunately)
Anyway, I have Chronic Kidney Disease, FSGS, but I want to get my bodyfat down (below 12-15%) as well as live longer, thus Intermittent Fasting seems like a good option to try…however, on the following site (http://www.silverhydra.com/2011/03/in-defense-of-fasting-why-it-wont-kill-you-and-why-you-should-stfu-until-you-try-it/) I came across the following and I’d love to know your opinion on this Tom as I esteem it (and you) highly:
” Exhibit A: Ketosis and Ketoacidosis
First, definitions:
Ketosis is the state of an organism characterized by elevated serum levels of ketones
Ketoacidosis is a metabolic state characterized by uncontrolled production of ketone bodies and decreased serum pH
Ketosis is the presence of ketones, ketoacidosis is the presence of ketones combined with a drop in pH. The drop in pH is due in part to overproduction of ketones (which are acidic in nature) and a failure of the body/diet to buffer said acidity.
So from this, we can preliminarily conclude that ketoacidosis will kill you and ketosis will not. (Whether the latter is good or bad for health is another can of worms I’ll open up later when I get the time). It would make good sense to avoid ketoacidosis to avoid an abrupt acidic death (or at least a ketoacidotic coma).
Here’s the thing, ketoacidosis does not occur in healthy people. It is caused by two things (ketones going up, pH going down) and one of them (pH) just doesn’t get adversely affected in healthy people enough to cause acute side effects such as a coma.
The reason for this is because our kidneys are two concentrated organs of awesome, they regulate pH in vivo like you wouldn’t believe. Such an underrated pair of organs.
Essentially, when pH starts to drop, the kidneys release buffers (primarily bicarbonate) to fight the drop in pH short-term, then later on your urine and lung metabolism alter slightly (increasing CO2 expenditure, increasing acid excretion in the urine) to counter this acidity long term. This acid/base defense is incredibly effective for an organ system, insofar that having ketoacidosis occur outside of diabetes (due to renal damage), renal disease (same), and alcoholics (via impairing gluconeogenesis 24/7) is virtually non-existent.
So, assuming we drop into ketosis during a fast; we can be sure that it won’t kill us. Here’s the nail in the coffin however, many people don’t even drop into ketosis.
The reason ketones are even made in such a large quantity (they will be made spontaneously, but not enough to denote an ‘increase in serum levels’) are because the body needs glucose and is taking it from the glycerol backbone of the triacylglyceride. The glycerol backbone itself can be converted to a glycolysis intermediate and can be used in the synthesis of ATP in lieu of glucose.
Ketones are formed, essentially, by the fatty acids saying ‘Wtf?’ and binding together; then getting pissed or breathed out. They are only in free form like such because their glycerol backbone was robbed.
The production of said ketones requires that your body has a need for glucose (enough to rob the glycerol backbone). This means that hepatic glycogen stores must be depleted. At least in regards to Cheat Mode, where carbs are emphasized after a workout at night, there will be a fair bit of glycogen here to fuel you overnight and in the morning. There are also amino acids floating around to be deaminated and interconverted into glucose as well. By the time you run through all primary glucose stores, 16 hours may have passed and you’re back into eating.
AND
As for renal damage, I will direct your attention back to Exhibit A: Ketoacidosis. Remember how I said that ‘Your kidneys are boss and can handle most acid loads put into your body’? They don’t work so magically when they’re blatantly damaged or diseased. Those with renal damage should not fast or, if they decide to, better work with their MDs and really monitor their acid/alkalinity balance as to not fall into a ketoacidotic coma. (Consider beta-alanine; the lactic acid buffer used by athletes. It buffers all acids and can aid in this scenario; however, still talk with Mr.MD)
I know I said earlier that ‘fasting does not necessarily mean ketosis’, but this is not something you risk with renal damage. It can be avoided with smart supplementation (so those with renal damage could potentially intermittent fast), but I am hesitant to advocate this since I know for a fact people will think themselves smarter than their MD, fast without telling them, and hurt themselves. ”
*** Maybe I should intermittent fast 2 days a week for 16+ hours and on those days drink plenty of water with bicarb soda added as well???***
Thank you!
Well, there’s actually some evidence that a ketogenic diet may reverse kidney damage. Take a look at this video:
http://www.fathead-movie.com/index.php/2012/02/09/diabetes-kidney-damage-and-ketogenic-diets/
So while fasting may not be so great in your situation, ketosis may not be a problem at all.
The Lipid Hypothesis is alive and well in Australia!!! (unfortunately)
Anyway, I have Chronic Kidney Disease, FSGS, but I want to get my bodyfat down (below 12-15%) as well as live longer, thus Intermittent Fasting seems like a good option to try…however, on the following site (http://www.silverhydra.com/2011/03/in-defense-of-fasting-why-it-wont-kill-you-and-why-you-should-stfu-until-you-try-it/) I came across the following and I’d love to know your opinion on this Tom as I esteem it (and you) highly:
” Exhibit A: Ketosis and Ketoacidosis
First, definitions:
Ketosis is the state of an organism characterized by elevated serum levels of ketones
Ketoacidosis is a metabolic state characterized by uncontrolled production of ketone bodies and decreased serum pH
Ketosis is the presence of ketones, ketoacidosis is the presence of ketones combined with a drop in pH. The drop in pH is due in part to overproduction of ketones (which are acidic in nature) and a failure of the body/diet to buffer said acidity.
So from this, we can preliminarily conclude that ketoacidosis will kill you and ketosis will not. (Whether the latter is good or bad for health is another can of worms I’ll open up later when I get the time). It would make good sense to avoid ketoacidosis to avoid an abrupt acidic death (or at least a ketoacidotic coma).
Here’s the thing, ketoacidosis does not occur in healthy people. It is caused by two things (ketones going up, pH going down) and one of them (pH) just doesn’t get adversely affected in healthy people enough to cause acute side effects such as a coma.
The reason for this is because our kidneys are two concentrated organs of awesome, they regulate pH in vivo like you wouldn’t believe. Such an underrated pair of organs.
Essentially, when pH starts to drop, the kidneys release buffers (primarily bicarbonate) to fight the drop in pH short-term, then later on your urine and lung metabolism alter slightly (increasing CO2 expenditure, increasing acid excretion in the urine) to counter this acidity long term. This acid/base defense is incredibly effective for an organ system, insofar that having ketoacidosis occur outside of diabetes (due to renal damage), renal disease (same), and alcoholics (via impairing gluconeogenesis 24/7) is virtually non-existent.
So, assuming we drop into ketosis during a fast; we can be sure that it won’t kill us. Here’s the nail in the coffin however, many people don’t even drop into ketosis.
The reason ketones are even made in such a large quantity (they will be made spontaneously, but not enough to denote an ‘increase in serum levels’) are because the body needs glucose and is taking it from the glycerol backbone of the triacylglyceride. The glycerol backbone itself can be converted to a glycolysis intermediate and can be used in the synthesis of ATP in lieu of glucose.
Ketones are formed, essentially, by the fatty acids saying ‘Wtf?’ and binding together; then getting pissed or breathed out. They are only in free form like such because their glycerol backbone was robbed.
The production of said ketones requires that your body has a need for glucose (enough to rob the glycerol backbone). This means that hepatic glycogen stores must be depleted. At least in regards to Cheat Mode, where carbs are emphasized after a workout at night, there will be a fair bit of glycogen here to fuel you overnight and in the morning. There are also amino acids floating around to be deaminated and interconverted into glucose as well. By the time you run through all primary glucose stores, 16 hours may have passed and you’re back into eating.
AND
As for renal damage, I will direct your attention back to Exhibit A: Ketoacidosis. Remember how I said that ‘Your kidneys are boss and can handle most acid loads put into your body’? They don’t work so magically when they’re blatantly damaged or diseased. Those with renal damage should not fast or, if they decide to, better work with their MDs and really monitor their acid/alkalinity balance as to not fall into a ketoacidotic coma. (Consider beta-alanine; the lactic acid buffer used by athletes. It buffers all acids and can aid in this scenario; however, still talk with Mr.MD)
I know I said earlier that ‘fasting does not necessarily mean ketosis’, but this is not something you risk with renal damage. It can be avoided with smart supplementation (so those with renal damage could potentially intermittent fast), but I am hesitant to advocate this since I know for a fact people will think themselves smarter than their MD, fast without telling them, and hurt themselves. ”
*** Maybe I should intermittent fast 2 days a week for 16+ hours and on those days drink plenty of water with bicarb soda added as well???***
Thank you!
Well, there’s actually some evidence that a ketogenic diet may reverse kidney damage. Take a look at this video:
http://www.fathead-movie.com/index.php/2012/02/09/diabetes-kidney-damage-and-ketogenic-diets/
So while fasting may not be so great in your situation, ketosis may not be a problem at all.
Dean, please read the last sentence of that quote again.