You will recall that some weeks ago, I posted about a study in which the researchers suggested free statins should be offered with fast food to offset the cardiovascular damage. Some of you wondered if the study was tongue-in-cheek. Apparently not. One of the researchers left a comment today. Here is it in case you didn’t see it:
Dear Sirs,
Thank you for your interest in our article. Please let me clarify that we were not writing tongue in cheek, nor were we joking. Heart attacks are serious for our patients and those that suffer them often wish they could have been prevented.
What we are asking is why is it routine in fast food restaurants to have unhealthy condiments provided free (e.g. salt) which have no beneficial properties, and yet no access at that location to statins?
It can’t be because salt (for example) is healthier than statins.
Statins do not prevent many deaths in primary populations, i.e. people who seem healthy. They do convincingly prevent heart attacks but, since heart attacks are usually with modern care not fatal, these prevented heart attacks cannot be expected to translate into lives actually saved in a quantity that would be convincing to a neutral observer.
As for side effects of statin, they are few, when the genuine statin muscle abnormalities are compared to the blank placebo tablets. The power of the human imagination is gigantic: more than most people imagine (if that is not a self-defeating statement).
Daily statin tablets are now routine therapy for patients whose future diet and exercise are considered permanently irreparable; how can that be right and yet an individual statin an individual unhealthy meal be wrong?
How can it be right to hand out salt to people who may have high blood pressure (without checking or even asking), sugar to people who may be diabetic (without checking or asking), and excess calories to people who may be overweight (even obviously obese); and YET wrong to even make available statins for those who wish to exercise their free choice to have them? Let me reiterate that it is not the presence of the former that I object to, nor the lack of the latter, but the conjunction of the former being routine but the latter forbidden.
I do appreciate your good-humoured look at life, and at science. Keep it up. Somebody has to ask awkward questions – and you are definitely doing that. But that, too, is what I am doing in my own way.
Best wishes from London,
Darrel Francis
So there you have it, straight from the source. Statins are better for you than salt, so we should allow people to self-medicate.
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According to LD50 data, glyphosate is better for you than salt. Lets put that on the condiment stand.
Salt has no beneficial properties? Seriously?
Welcome to the future of nutritional science.
The future is now.
This is exactly why people like this shouldn’t be involved in setting public policy. This is just ridiculous.
Tom, didn’t you say in Fat Head that people eat more when they eat at a conventional restaurant than at a fast-food restaurant? For example, a steak, baked potato and basket of fluffy bread and dessert vs. a burger, fries and Coke? Shouldn’t the statins be offered by a maitre d’ instead of Ronald McDonald?
Very good point. Another recent study confirmed the same thing: in sit-down restaurants people consume bigger, higher-calorie meals than in fast-food joints.
I also find it frightening that we allow teenagers to hand out sugar satchets with coffee willy nilly. I can just picture some pimply faced kid interrogating a crotchety old man and get smacked over the head with his cane.
What we are asking is why is it routine in fast food restaurants to have unhealthy condiments provided free (e.g. salt) which have no beneficial properties, and yet no access at that location to statins?
SALT ISNT FREE. It is factored into the costs of running the business. But you wouldn’t know that because you haven’t operated in the freemarket and can’t understand a simple supply / demand argument.
How can it be right to hand out salt to people who may have high blood pressure (without checking or even asking), sugar to people who may be diabetic (without checking or asking), and excess calories to people who may be overweight (even obviously obese); and YET wrong to even make available statins for those who wish to exercise their free choice to have them? Let me reiterate that it is not the presence of the former that I object to, nor the lack of the latter, but the conjunction of the former being routine but the latter forbidden.
Statists always cloak violence in the language of voluntary exchange..
Why can’t McDonalds just give away free statins?
Oh you mean why can’t the government threaten them with fines and arrest if they don’t buy statins and then pass the expense on to their customers in the form of higher prices?
Or maybe you can convince Lipitor to give McDonalds all these “free” statins. Since that is apparently the morally “right” course of action.
People in academia are economic morons and ethical morons. Unwilling to accept that their careers and research are paid for by theft. And perfectly willing to blur the moral lines of voluntary interaction and the initiation of violence.
/rant
Good rant.
What about when there are interactions? There was a statin that was pulled off the market because of interactions and the results of those interactions: People died.
From Wiki on Baycol:
During post-marketing surveillance, 52 deaths were reported in patients using cerivastatin, mainly from rhabdomyolysis and its resultant renal failure.[1] Risks were higher in patients using fibrates, mainly gemfibrozil (Lopid), and in patients using the highest (0.8 mg/day) dose of cerivastatin. Bayer A.G. added contraindication about the concomitant use of cerivastatin and gemfibrozil to the package 18 months after the drug interaction was found.
I was on it for a few months, then was switched to Pravachol. After that made me feel like crap, I told the doctor, no more. Haven’t touched it since.
If we give out statins with fast food and people suffer reactions, they’ll get a free refill.
We live in a wacky world. I’m a dentist and they won’t let me prescribe ten prescription pain pills for myself. But they’re happy to put statin shakers on the tables.
Really, was this supposed to be satire? Because the world has gotten so crazy that I just can’t tell anymore.
We know that there are many salts, not just NaCl, and that people with HBP can eat too much of it, but please, tell me this guy is kidding. If we don’t have salt, we die. I would describe that as a benefit.
If he’s joking (his email address is legit), they’ve kept the joke going a long time now.
Well you can’t argue with logic like this: “The power of the human imagination is gigantic: more than most people imagine.”
I guess I just can’t imagine my own imagination! Mind you, it is not the presence of the former that I object to, nor the lack of the ladder, but the conjunction of the former being routine but the latter forbidden.
I understand what he was saying completely. I often can’t rise to my own height.
Hi again, Tom!
A little update from the country of Santa Claus… =)
I was told a while ago that my step-father was prescribed statins (his total cholesterol was like 8,1…). He got prescribed the drugs on his first visit!
Things have really changed here in Finland. My mother, who is a nurse, told me that she had to monitor her blood pressure for like 10 years and try to lose weight and change her diet before they gave her the pills…
Well, anyway, the side effects of statins reached my step-dad really fast, and he was complaining about muscle pain and generally not feeling well. Thankfully my mom read him about the side effects and he quit them. Now he feels well again. But how could statins cause side effects.
The problem with Finland is that no one reacts on the government’s decisions or policies, and the doctor is ALWAYS right. ALWAYS. Like my mom said, if the doctors would stop giving out pills to every little thing, there would be a chaos. People expect to get some sort of pill, not “Change your eating habits, perhaps exercise more”.
There are 5,3 million people in Finland. A researcher told in an article in May that 660.000 Finns are already prescribed statins, and the amount goes up by 50.000 people EVERY YEAR! That’s a lot for a country this small. But no one talks about the statins or the side effects. Instead, our commercial breaks on TV are filled with ads by Unilever who want you to check the age of your heart (which is BS), Danone’s pro-pre-whatever-biotic yoghurts, of course Activia, the miracle yoghurt by Danone, pills for heartburn, creams and pills for aches and so on. I’m actually happy if I see one ad for a mascara or perhaps a supermarket!
I read somewhere that in 2008, Unilever went on a nation-wide cholesterol-themed tour where they would measure your total cholesterol and tell you to eat their margarine if it was over 5.0… Why didn’t they do it in Finland, here’s the proper audience for that! And people do buy those horrible “wannabe-butters”.
Well, that’s all for me. I just had to get this out of my system…
Thanks for a great blog, as always!
/Milla
I assume Santa Claus is on statins and eating a lot of wannabe butter, then. He won’t be jolly for long.
Salt has no beneficial properties? Seriously?
Welcome to the future of nutritional science.
The future is now.
A statement like that from a licensed, practicing M.D. should call into question his suitability for both clinical and research activity. Either way, he’s going to do the very thing he swore an oath not to – harm people.
Sad thing is, they actually believe what they say: statins are wonder drugs.
Would be interesting to know what MacDonalds thinks of this. They’re keeping pretty quiet (as far as I know). Probably the wisest move. Any publicity is good publicity I guess. I’m a kfc girl myself and I don’t even take the coating off!!
This is exactly why people like this shouldn’t be involved in setting public policy. This is just ridiculous.
What we are asking is why is it routine in fast food restaurants to have unhealthy condiments provided free (e.g. salt) which have no beneficial properties, and yet no access at that location to statins?
SALT ISNT FREE. It is factored into the costs of running the business. But you wouldn’t know that because you haven’t operated in the freemarket and can’t understand a simple supply / demand argument.
How can it be right to hand out salt to people who may have high blood pressure (without checking or even asking), sugar to people who may be diabetic (without checking or asking), and excess calories to people who may be overweight (even obviously obese); and YET wrong to even make available statins for those who wish to exercise their free choice to have them? Let me reiterate that it is not the presence of the former that I object to, nor the lack of the latter, but the conjunction of the former being routine but the latter forbidden.
Statists always cloak violence in the language of voluntary exchange..
Why can’t McDonalds just give away free statins?
Oh you mean why can’t the government threaten them with fines and arrest if they don’t buy statins and then pass the expense on to their customers in the form of higher prices?
Or maybe you can convince Lipitor to give McDonalds all these “free” statins. Since that is apparently the morally “right” course of action.
People in academia are economic morons and ethical morons. Unwilling to accept that their careers and research are paid for by theft. And perfectly willing to blur the moral lines of voluntary interaction and the initiation of violence.
/rant
Good rant.
We live in a wacky world. I’m a dentist and they won’t let me prescribe ten prescription pain pills for myself. But they’re happy to put statin shakers on the tables.
Well, I’ll keep eating salt over a statin any day. Oh and BTW, there are other real causes of high blood pressure 🙂
High intake of fructose seems to be the most likely culprit.
Hi again, Tom!
A little update from the country of Santa Claus… =)
I was told a while ago that my step-father was prescribed statins (his total cholesterol was like 8,1…). He got prescribed the drugs on his first visit!
Things have really changed here in Finland. My mother, who is a nurse, told me that she had to monitor her blood pressure for like 10 years and try to lose weight and change her diet before they gave her the pills…
Well, anyway, the side effects of statins reached my step-dad really fast, and he was complaining about muscle pain and generally not feeling well. Thankfully my mom read him about the side effects and he quit them. Now he feels well again. But how could statins cause side effects.
The problem with Finland is that no one reacts on the government’s decisions or policies, and the doctor is ALWAYS right. ALWAYS. Like my mom said, if the doctors would stop giving out pills to every little thing, there would be a chaos. People expect to get some sort of pill, not “Change your eating habits, perhaps exercise more”.
There are 5,3 million people in Finland. A researcher told in an article in May that 660.000 Finns are already prescribed statins, and the amount goes up by 50.000 people EVERY YEAR! That’s a lot for a country this small. But no one talks about the statins or the side effects. Instead, our commercial breaks on TV are filled with ads by Unilever who want you to check the age of your heart (which is BS), Danone’s pro-pre-whatever-biotic yoghurts, of course Activia, the miracle yoghurt by Danone, pills for heartburn, creams and pills for aches and so on. I’m actually happy if I see one ad for a mascara or perhaps a supermarket!
I read somewhere that in 2008, Unilever went on a nation-wide cholesterol-themed tour where they would measure your total cholesterol and tell you to eat their margarine if it was over 5.0… Why didn’t they do it in Finland, here’s the proper audience for that! And people do buy those horrible “wannabe-butters”.
Well, that’s all for me. I just had to get this out of my system…
Thanks for a great blog, as always!
/Milla
I assume Santa Claus is on statins and eating a lot of wannabe butter, then. He won’t be jolly for long.
A statement like that from a licensed, practicing M.D. should call into question his suitability for both clinical and research activity. Either way, he’s going to do the very thing he swore an oath not to – harm people.
Sad thing is, they actually believe what they say: statins are wonder drugs.
Would be interesting to know what MacDonalds thinks of this. They’re keeping pretty quiet (as far as I know). Probably the wisest move. Any publicity is good publicity I guess. I’m a kfc girl myself and I don’t even take the coating off!!
I wonder how much $$$ Mr. Francis gets from big pharma?
I’d like to know that myself.
Since dietary saturated fat has kinda been exonerated as being the cause of heart disease, it seems to me like the ’cause’ has morphed into the LACK of statins! Peter over at HYPERLIPID has a post called ‘ Best ever statin study comment’ from Feb. 19, 2008. It’s short and a must read. The cause of heart disease just might be triglycerides, too much insulin (from dietary carbs), low-fat, vegetarian eats, diabetes, wheat proteins (all EASILY corrected with simple, joyous modifications to the afflicted’s diet), but no. Now we’re being asked to believe that the cause of heart disease is that there are no or not enough statins in our blood. It’s bad enough the charade that they prevent heart disease.
Pretty soon, there will an RDA for statins.
Dear Darrel,
Please show me your evidence that eating a single McDouble increases my risk of an MI. Please also show me your evidence that if I take a statin along with my McDouble that I will not have an MI.
Also, can you please explain to me how it is possible for my friend Jimmy to have eaten lunch at McDonald’s every day for the past 30 years. He is 76 years old and has never taken a statin or had an MI. How can this possibly be?
Thank you
Here is a healthier choice. Heavy physical activity may significantly reduce heart disease deaths, especially after age 45:
http://healthcorrelator.blogspot.com/2010/08/heavy-physical-activity-may.html
In the article reviewed in the post above, the reduction in the 65-74 group was rather dramatic. And they were not comparing folks doing heavy physical activity with completely inactive people. All were dock workers.
My weight-lifting sessions looking more and more like a true cardiovascular fitness program.
Well, I’ll keep eating salt over a statin any day. Oh and BTW, there are other real causes of high blood pressure 🙂
High intake of fructose seems to be the most likely culprit.
OT: Tom, I would love to see you do a debunking of the pseudoscience that says that fresh raw milk from grass/hay fed cows can make people sick. I could do it, but it wouldn’t be funny. 🙂
It’s on my list.
“How can it be right to hand out … salt …sugar…”
There’s the basis of the whole argument. Restaurants do not “hand out” these things, they sell them. People ingest them because they want them and have paid for them. The whole argument comes from a faulty premise, so we can just ignore it.
And, of course, the drumbeat for more widespread use of statins has NOTHING to do with the patents running out very soon. Bawahahahaha.
Unless you are in a small minority of the population, salt has no effect on blood pressure. This myth has been dis-proven time and time again, yet doctors like this don’t keep up with the news…
“.. Dietary sodium restriction for older hypertensive individuals
might be considered, but the evidence in the normotensive population
does not support current recommendations for universal dietary sodium
restriction. ”
http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/275/20/1590
“There is no evidence that limiting NaCl consumption to 6 g/day, as
recommended by a number of health agencies, poses any health risk.”
http://ajpheart.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/276/5/H1807
“low-salt diets had virtually no effect on people with normal blood
pressure, a vast majority of the population, and, at best, resulted in
only a small drop in the systolic pressure of people with high blood
pressure.”
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9401E7DA1039F931A15756C0A960958260&scp=2&sq=salt&st=nyt
Exactly. Recent research indicates that salt is only an issue for people whose kidneys are damaged.
…As serious as a heart attack. RobR is on the money; the moral reasoning is we all should share the cost of culture on Statin Planet.
Give me liberty, RX sprinkles and my dentist taking ten potent painkillers.
Tom, you are clinically imaginitive…what can they give you for that?
I’ve found that reading the 2010 U.S. Dietary Guidelines dulls the imagination quite effectively.
Poor grammar and word choice suggest “fake”.
http://health.yahoo.net/news/s/afp/healthusobesityresearchbritain
Exercise cuts genetic obesity risk by 40 percent: study
Here’s a headline for you to ponder. Health reporting at it finest again! A quick glance at that headline and the average joe would think that folks that have a genetic risk for obesity would be 40% less likely to become obese if they exercise. They’d be wrong.
http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pmed.1000332
What did the researchers find?
The researchers found that each additional BMI-increasing allele was associated with an increase in BMI equivalent to 445 g in body weight for a person 1.70 m tall and that the size of this effect was greater in inactive people than in active people. In individuals who have a physically active lifestyle, this increase was only 379 g/allele, or 36% lower than in physically inactive individuals in whom the increase was 592 g/allele.
I calculate that to be a difference of 0.4lbs per allele.
Yep – 10 genetic variances and you have a whapping 4 lb diffference in weight.
Makes you want to run to the treadmill, no?
That’s why they like to express their findings in percentages. 40% sounds a lot more impressive than 4 lbs.
There was a piece on KevinMD by Dr. Eric Van de Graaff extolling the values of statins last week. He dismissed even the possiblity of side effects or danger from these drugs. Of course, he did not disclose any ties to the drug companies…
Predictabaly, most (but not all) of the docs who responded agreed with him. What was really sad was the number of patients who commented and thought that statins had saved their lives.
Most doctors are frighteningly uninformed about the side effects. My mom’s doctor had no idea a statin could be causing my mom’s muscle pains.
If this is real it may be time to give up, NOT. I can just imagine a bunch of idiot PhD’s reading the recommendation to serve statins wherever fats and salt are sold and nodding their heads wisely.
It’s crap like this that can get momentum and move politicians (maybe not one this ludicrous) but you never know these days.
Keep doing what you do and don’t get discouraged. Thanks for making it entertaining at least.
You’ve got to laugh to keep your sanity these days.
I wonder how much $$$ Mr. Francis gets from big pharma?
I’d like to know that myself.
Well, ok, let’s run with his viewpoint for a moment….Why pick on McDonalds? Why not just attach a statin to all junk food? Shouldn’t a bag of Oreo’s, a Dr. Pepper or a PopTart come with statin? A statin packet would be the perfect prize for a box of sugary cereal. If you’re dumb enough to eat that way then you’re going to get side effects from your diet, what’s a few extra?
Just wait, they’ll be lobbying to put statin powder in the mix for all “junk” foods.
Since dietary saturated fat has kinda been exonerated as being the cause of heart disease, it seems to me like the ’cause’ has morphed into the LACK of statins! Peter over at HYPERLIPID has a post called ‘ Best ever statin study comment’ from Feb. 19, 2008. It’s short and a must read. The cause of heart disease just might be triglycerides, too much insulin (from dietary carbs), low-fat, vegetarian eats, diabetes, wheat proteins (all EASILY corrected with simple, joyous modifications to the afflicted’s diet), but no. Now we’re being asked to believe that the cause of heart disease is that there are no or not enough statins in our blood. It’s bad enough the charade that they prevent heart disease.
Pretty soon, there will an RDA for statins.
Dear Darrel,
Please show me your evidence that eating a single McDouble increases my risk of an MI. Please also show me your evidence that if I take a statin along with my McDouble that I will not have an MI.
Also, can you please explain to me how it is possible for my friend Jimmy to have eaten lunch at McDonald’s every day for the past 30 years. He is 76 years old and has never taken a statin or had an MI. How can this possibly be?
Thank you
Here is a healthier choice. Heavy physical activity may significantly reduce heart disease deaths, especially after age 45:
http://healthcorrelator.blogspot.com/2010/08/heavy-physical-activity-may.html
In the article reviewed in the post above, the reduction in the 65-74 group was rather dramatic. And they were not comparing folks doing heavy physical activity with completely inactive people. All were dock workers.
My weight-lifting sessions looking more and more like a true cardiovascular fitness program.
OT: Tom, I would love to see you do a debunking of the pseudoscience that says that fresh raw milk from grass/hay fed cows can make people sick. I could do it, but it wouldn’t be funny. 🙂
It’s on my list.
“How can it be right to hand out … salt …sugar…”
There’s the basis of the whole argument. Restaurants do not “hand out” these things, they sell them. People ingest them because they want them and have paid for them. The whole argument comes from a faulty premise, so we can just ignore it.
And, of course, the drumbeat for more widespread use of statins has NOTHING to do with the patents running out very soon. Bawahahahaha.
Unless you are in a small minority of the population, salt has no effect on blood pressure. This myth has been dis-proven time and time again, yet doctors like this don’t keep up with the news…
“.. Dietary sodium restriction for older hypertensive individuals
might be considered, but the evidence in the normotensive population
does not support current recommendations for universal dietary sodium
restriction. ”
http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/275/20/1590
“There is no evidence that limiting NaCl consumption to 6 g/day, as
recommended by a number of health agencies, poses any health risk.”
http://ajpheart.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/276/5/H1807
“low-salt diets had virtually no effect on people with normal blood
pressure, a vast majority of the population, and, at best, resulted in
only a small drop in the systolic pressure of people with high blood
pressure.”
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9401E7DA1039F931A15756C0A960958260&scp=2&sq=salt&st=nyt
Exactly. Recent research indicates that salt is only an issue for people whose kidneys are damaged.
…As serious as a heart attack. RobR is on the money; the moral reasoning is we all should share the cost of culture on Statin Planet.
Give me liberty, RX sprinkles and my dentist taking ten potent painkillers.
Tom, you are clinically imaginitive…what can they give you for that?
I’ve found that reading the 2010 U.S. Dietary Guidelines dulls the imagination quite effectively.
Poor grammar and word choice suggest “fake”.
http://health.yahoo.net/news/s/afp/healthusobesityresearchbritain
Exercise cuts genetic obesity risk by 40 percent: study
Here’s a headline for you to ponder. Health reporting at it finest again! A quick glance at that headline and the average joe would think that folks that have a genetic risk for obesity would be 40% less likely to become obese if they exercise. They’d be wrong.
http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pmed.1000332
What did the researchers find?
The researchers found that each additional BMI-increasing allele was associated with an increase in BMI equivalent to 445 g in body weight for a person 1.70 m tall and that the size of this effect was greater in inactive people than in active people. In individuals who have a physically active lifestyle, this increase was only 379 g/allele, or 36% lower than in physically inactive individuals in whom the increase was 592 g/allele.
I calculate that to be a difference of 0.4lbs per allele.
Yep – 10 genetic variances and you have a whapping 4 lb diffference in weight.
Makes you want to run to the treadmill, no?
That’s why they like to express their findings in percentages. 40% sounds a lot more impressive than 4 lbs.
There was a piece on KevinMD by Dr. Eric Van de Graaff extolling the values of statins last week. He dismissed even the possiblity of side effects or danger from these drugs. Of course, he did not disclose any ties to the drug companies…
Predictabaly, most (but not all) of the docs who responded agreed with him. What was really sad was the number of patients who commented and thought that statins had saved their lives.
Most doctors are frighteningly uninformed about the side effects. My mom’s doctor had no idea a statin could be causing my mom’s muscle pains.
If this is real it may be time to give up, NOT. I can just imagine a bunch of idiot PhD’s reading the recommendation to serve statins wherever fats and salt are sold and nodding their heads wisely.
It’s crap like this that can get momentum and move politicians (maybe not one this ludicrous) but you never know these days.
Keep doing what you do and don’t get discouraged. Thanks for making it entertaining at least.
You’ve got to laugh to keep your sanity these days.
OT, Denise Minger has an awesome new post. Turns out Campbell’s epidemiological data shows that wheat intake is the biggest risk factor for heart disease in China.
http://tinyurl.com/2cu36ej
Outstanding.