Vegan Nut-Jobs Attack Lierre Keith

      367 Comments on Vegan Nut-Jobs Attack Lierre Keith

As you’ve probably heard by now, Lierre Keith, author of the fabulous book The Vegetarian Myth, was attacked by three vegan nut-jobs on Saturday while giving a speech.  They threw a pie laced with cayenne pepper in her face.  If that doesn’t sound like much of an attack, keep in mind that it’s nearly the equivalent of being attacked with pepper spray.  And frankly, I’d be outraged even if the pie was made of whipped cream.  (No wait … that would be a dairy product; the vegans would never stoop to such cruelty just to assault a human being.) 

Fortunately, Keith is recovering.  Jimmy Moore wrote to inquire about her condition, and she replied:

My eyes are still puffy and blurry, but the pain is definitely better. I think the worst part was hearing people cheer my assailants while I was being assaulted. I don’t want to live in a world where people cheer while someone has cayenne rubbed into their eyes.

Yes, people were cheering — while three men in masks attacked a 45-year-old woman who already has a damaged spine.  My, what courage. 

I’d like to say I’m surprised, but I’m not.  The animal-rights wackos have a long and proud history of attacking soft targets.  As my comedian friend Tim Slagle once pointed out, they’ll happily throw blood on women wearing fur — but strangely, they never feel inspired to attempt a similar protest on men wearing leather. 

Nearly as disturbing as the attack was the ability of some vegans to justify it in their fatty-acid-depleted brains.  Here are few quotes from a “news” site, with my comments:

Some will undoubtedly argue that the pieing was an attack on free speech, but Keith has been afforded more speech than most people on the planet will ever be, courtesy of PM Press.

Well, gosh yes, once someone has been afforded more than his or her share of free speech, it’s perfectly okay to use violence to correct the imbalance.  I’m sure that’s what James Earl Ray had in mind, too.  Although if you really think about it — and I’d suggest consuming an egg or two before tackling this one — you and Lierre Keith have been afforded exactly the same amount of free speech.  The only difference is that more people have elected to listen to her.

In fact, she is profiting from the soap box she has been given to pretend she is a radical environmentalist who just happens to jet around the country to and from her home in rural Massachusetts.

Making a profit and flying on a jet?  Truly unforgivable.  Since Al Gore has set himself up to make millions in the carbon-credit business while flying all over creation in a private jet and living in a mansion that uses 20 times the national average for electricity, can we expect you to toss a pepper-pie in his face anytime soon?  Or will you remain true to form and attack Tipper instead?

In a world where vegans and vegetarians are a definite minority, face constant bombardment with pro-meat messages our American cattle culture, and frequently have to deal with direct attacks from government, law enforcement, and multinational corporations that profit from the sale of factory-farmed meat and dairy, Ramsey Kanaan of PM Press, himself a long-time vegan, strangely chose to pile on with yet another attack on vegans, this time being especially traumatic in that it comes from the inside of the supposed radical environmental movement.

Those direct attacks from the government on the oppressed vegan minority are an outrage, all right.  Just last week, storm troopers dragged a dozen vegans out of our local Whole Foods and shot them in the street.  It’s a shame you don’t live in a country where you’re free to just ignore those traumatizing pro-meat messages and continue living as a vegan.

Through the Bound Together collective, of which Ramsey Kanaan is a member, Lierre Keith has been asked to speak in the Bay Area repeatedly. The mean-spirited book and these speaking engagements are largely one-way conversations with Keith dominating the dialogue.

Wait … you mean she’s been asked to speak repeatedly?!  Wow, that usually only happens to people who have something interesting to say and can therefore draw a crowd.  But I see your point about the one-way conversations.  It’s got to stop.  In fact, nearly every time I attend a speech, the speaker just stands up there speaking and speaking and speaking, without ever asking me what I believe.  I can’t tell you how many times I’ve thought to myself, “Damn!  If only I had a pepper-laced pie, I could bring some balance into this dialog.”

But today, anonymous masked peoples stood up and refused to allow PM Press and Bound Together to yet again try to cram Lierre Keith down our throats. They stood up for many who have suffered silently, without a voice, since the publication of her book.

I hear you, bro.  I remember the glory days when people were allowed to choose which speeches they’d attend.  Now, of course, the meat industry kidnaps vegans at gunpoint and crams Lierre Keith’s speeches down their throats.  Those were some true freedom fighters who attacked her.  More bravery like this, and perhaps someday vegans will be allowed to publish their own books, give their own speeches in public, or — dare I say it? — express their opinions on their very own blogs, instead of being forced to suffer in silence.

The article was bad enough.  Here are a few bits of wisdom from vegans commenting on the article:

Lierre Keith was appropriately treated when she was physically stopped from continuing to advocate for and incite the murder of innocent non-human beings.

Can’t argue with that.  Next time I see some vegan farmer tilling the soil and killing thousands of non-humans in the process, I’m going to mace him in the face.  (No wait, I keep forgetting about vegan logic:  it’s okay to kill creatures in the quest for food as long as you aren’t killing on purpose.)

She was pied, get over it. Big deal, even IF it was a spicy pie. Somebody call the waaaambulance for this loser. This action was both hilarious & totally appropriate.

Yeah, a little spice in the eyes is hilarious.  Nothing to fuss about.  Any chance we could meet in person so I can share a few laughs with you?  I do this bit with Tabasco sauce that’s just side-splitting.

Lierre obviously comes from a privileged perspective if the very first thing she said was “someone call the cops” as only the privileged automatically think of police as their friends and defenders. Lower classes and darker skinned people do not immediately look to police for help. They’ll take the help if it’s there, but they don’t assume police generally exist to serve them.

That’s why I enjoy watching “Cops” on TV:  it just cracks me up seeing all those people who come from a privileged perspective calling the police on each other.  Last week I saw a repeat of the episode where the guy in the smoking jacket answers the door and says, “Yes, officer, my wife Muffy is such a pill, I’m afraid she let loose with the pepper-spray in the middle of a heated discussion about the relevance of Kantian ethics in modern society.  Could you be a dear and slap some cuffs on her?  And I won’t object if you make them uncomfortably tight.”

But if you’re suggesting Lierre Keith should deal with being physically attacked in a manner more befitting the “lower classes and darker skinned people,” I’m pretty sure we can round up plenty of volunteers to administer the appropriate justice.

Has anyone considered that it wasn’t Vegans who pied who but an agent provocateur trying to create division?

Damn, you caught us.  See, that’s the thing about us meat-eaters:  we take ourselves and our identities as meat-eaters so seriously, we sit around and try to think of ways to split up the vegan movement.

Message to Keith and others who promote oppression, repression and murder of the innocent, and destruction of the planet, however misinformedly well-intentioned – “No more free ride!”

By all means, please start physically assaulting anyone who believes eating meat is beneficial.  I’d suggest you start with Fred Hahn.  That will give you a chance to field-test your theory that avoiding meat actually makes people stronger.  (Although I predict the theory will turn out to be misinformedly wrong.)

As a vegan I’m both mad at and ashamed of the people who did this. They are bullies.

You sound eerily sane.  How long have you been a vegan?  (To be fair, more than a few vegans were disgusted by the attack.  Good for them.)

Some commenters suggested the attackers were suffering from the “vegan rage” Keith describes in her book.  That was my first thought as well.  But since then, I’ve decided we may be confusing a correlation with a cause.  Yes, they could be prone to rage because a vegan diet has depleted their brains.  But I think it’s just as likely they’re militant vegans because they fit the personality type described so brilliantly by Eric Hoffer in his book The True Believer.  I plan to write a post on that topic later in the week.  It seems more appropriate for my other blog, so it’ll probably end up there.  I’ll let you know.


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367 thoughts on “Vegan Nut-Jobs Attack Lierre Keith

  1. MC

    Vegans appear to be just like all the religious fanatics I have the misfortune of running into. They’re all hypocrites! I have a friend who is proudly vegan, and is constantly reminding everyone around him how the vegan lifestyle is good for the planet, doesn’t kill animals, etc…
    I’ve seen him slam on the brakes, jump out of the car (a large SUV. (He’s from the Al Gore school of green planet thinking)), endangering everyone around him, to remove a few worms from the middle of the road! I couldn’t believe it.
    Anyway, in this case, Ms. Keith was on the receiving end of this type of thinking, and as is the case with all the religious nuts, the vegans actually believe they were justified in their actions.

    Reply
  2. MC

    Vegans appear to be just like all the religious fanatics I have the misfortune of running into. They’re all hypocrites! I have a friend who is proudly vegan, and is constantly reminding everyone around him how the vegan lifestyle is good for the planet, doesn’t kill animals, etc…
    I’ve seen him slam on the brakes, jump out of the car (a large SUV. (He’s from the Al Gore school of green planet thinking)), endangering everyone around him, to remove a few worms from the middle of the road! I couldn’t believe it.
    Anyway, in this case, Ms. Keith was on the receiving end of this type of thinking, and as is the case with all the religious nuts, the vegans actually believe they were justified in their actions.

    Reply
  3. George D. Henderson

    “only an idiot lets an expert contradict their own experience”. Dunno who said that but it stuck in my mind. If I’d taken all the advice I was given by qualified experts – heck, let’s just limit it to M.D.s – I’m pretty sure I’d be dead today.
    If a qualified nutritional expert told that vegan they were better off eating meat, they’d take it seriously. Yeah right.
    We are all, potentially, experts in nutrition because we can all potentially read, cook, eat, and live. It’s food, folks, everyone does it, no-one has a monopoly. If you have to trust anyone, trust the diet doctors who have actually been answerable to large numbers of patients who came to them with health problems; that would include Dr Eades and Dr Atkins. Don’t trust an expert who’s speciality is torturing rats or adding up questionaires, over one who gets results.
    Which raises another issue – these vegans are not particular about using vivisection research to back their arguments, rather than just trusting in millenia of human experience.

    Reply
  4. George D. Henderson

    “only an idiot lets an expert contradict their own experience”. Dunno who said that but it stuck in my mind. If I’d taken all the advice I was given by qualified experts – heck, let’s just limit it to M.D.s – I’m pretty sure I’d be dead today.
    If a qualified nutritional expert told that vegan they were better off eating meat, they’d take it seriously. Yeah right.
    We are all, potentially, experts in nutrition because we can all potentially read, cook, eat, and live. It’s food, folks, everyone does it, no-one has a monopoly. If you have to trust anyone, trust the diet doctors who have actually been answerable to large numbers of patients who came to them with health problems; that would include Dr Eades and Dr Atkins. Don’t trust an expert who’s speciality is torturing rats or adding up questionaires, over one who gets results.
    Which raises another issue – these vegans are not particular about using vivisection research to back their arguments, rather than just trusting in millenia of human experience.

    Reply
  5. MC

    Everyone here should read ‘The Paleo Solution: The Original Human Diet, by Robb Wolf. Great book, great advice.

    Reply
  6. Maureen

    Hi- I see that I’m about 9 months late with my comments here for the heated discussion. I am a 28 year old woman and I have been a vegetarian for 17+ years, and I celebrate my vegetarian date like alcoholics celebrate their sobriety date. I was 11 years old and NOT from a vegetarian family. In fact, I was the only vegetarian I knew. I made the decision mid-hamburger. Over the years I have had brief vegan periods, usually prompted by reading radical vegan blogs, as Lierre talks about in the beginning of the book. I have never dated a vegetarian, though I admit it would make my life easier- I usually don’t like other vegetarians and vegans- I know I’m going to get hate mail for this. I came across Lierre’s book in doing research for my own blog on the environmental sustainability of vegetarianism. I haven’t yet fully written the article. I was motivated by the fact that many of the soy-products I like are obviously factory produced and not in their natural form, so they can’t possibly be more sustainable than local meat right? Anyway, I’m a lifelong vegetarian that supports choice. The bottom line for me comes down to the fact that I don’t want to eat meat, and nobody can tell me whether I have the right to or not. I believe as humans we have an inherent moral code, and mine tells me not to eat meat, but animal products for me are necessary for survival. I have no problem with hunting- I live in Pennsylvania where deer are more dangerous to humans than is hunting, so I am okay with hunting as long as the animal is used as much as possible. I still won’t eat it. 🙂 My boyfriends tease me and my parents wouldn’t cook separately for me, but ultimately every time I look at a menu it is my right to choose what I want to eat, as it is everyone else’s. The meat-eaters will dangle a piece of bacon and say “oooh don’t you want some” No. But vegans in my experience are the worst- they seem to think its okay to judge me for my choices. Argue with me over cheese, as if they’re going to somehow win points with whatever God they pray to if they make me feel guilty about a slice of pizza.

    I’ve gone on pretty long here, but the actual bottom line is that education should be the goal, for everyone. It’s a sign of educational depravity that anyone would Pie in the face someone who challenges their beliefs.

    P.S. I once woke up to my little brother and his buddy putting raw steak on my face. He was 8. real adults, as described by lierre, would not have pie faced anyone.

    If your moral code says don’t eat meat, then I agree, you shouldn’t. Lierre discusses the morality quite in her book, so if you haven’t read that section yet, I suspect you’ll find it intriguing. Bottom line is that we should all respect each other’s decisions on the matter.

    Reply
  7. Maureen

    Hi- I see that I’m about 9 months late with my comments here for the heated discussion. I am a 28 year old woman and I have been a vegetarian for 17+ years, and I celebrate my vegetarian date like alcoholics celebrate their sobriety date. I was 11 years old and NOT from a vegetarian family. In fact, I was the only vegetarian I knew. I made the decision mid-hamburger. Over the years I have had brief vegan periods, usually prompted by reading radical vegan blogs, as Lierre talks about in the beginning of the book. I have never dated a vegetarian, though I admit it would make my life easier- I usually don’t like other vegetarians and vegans- I know I’m going to get hate mail for this. I came across Lierre’s book in doing research for my own blog on the environmental sustainability of vegetarianism. I haven’t yet fully written the article. I was motivated by the fact that many of the soy-products I like are obviously factory produced and not in their natural form, so they can’t possibly be more sustainable than local meat right? Anyway, I’m a lifelong vegetarian that supports choice. The bottom line for me comes down to the fact that I don’t want to eat meat, and nobody can tell me whether I have the right to or not. I believe as humans we have an inherent moral code, and mine tells me not to eat meat, but animal products for me are necessary for survival. I have no problem with hunting- I live in Pennsylvania where deer are more dangerous to humans than is hunting, so I am okay with hunting as long as the animal is used as much as possible. I still won’t eat it. 🙂 My boyfriends tease me and my parents wouldn’t cook separately for me, but ultimately every time I look at a menu it is my right to choose what I want to eat, as it is everyone else’s. The meat-eaters will dangle a piece of bacon and say “oooh don’t you want some” No. But vegans in my experience are the worst- they seem to think its okay to judge me for my choices. Argue with me over cheese, as if they’re going to somehow win points with whatever God they pray to if they make me feel guilty about a slice of pizza.

    I’ve gone on pretty long here, but the actual bottom line is that education should be the goal, for everyone. It’s a sign of educational depravity that anyone would Pie in the face someone who challenges their beliefs.

    P.S. I once woke up to my little brother and his buddy putting raw steak on my face. He was 8. real adults, as described by lierre, would not have pie faced anyone.

    If your moral code says don’t eat meat, then I agree, you shouldn’t. Lierre discusses the morality quite in her book, so if you haven’t read that section yet, I suspect you’ll find it intriguing. Bottom line is that we should all respect each other’s decisions on the matter.

    Reply
  8. Steven Ault

    It’s difficult to understand the motivation behind the book ‘The Vegetarian Myth’. Is it the meat industry’s response to the findings by the International Convention on Climate Change? Is the motivation psychological? Is vegetarianism too mainstream or too ‘square’ now for someone like Lierre Keith, a feminist anarchist who opposes authority? I suggest the latter. It’s a strange book, and I don’t think too many colleges or universities will purchase it! No self respecting vegetarian or vegan should be perturbed by this book. After all, the science, the facts, the statistics all point to the a need for lower meat (and probably dairy) consumption. This book is ‘pseudo scientific’ and based purely on opinion. Do you listen to scientists and nutritionists, or a feminist activist? You decide. This ‘Meat Head’ bloke has some serious malfunctions! Who is he?!!! Is he not an extremist himself? His terminology would suggest so!

    Well, damn, you caught us! The only reason anyone would suggest that eating the foods we ate for millions of years might actually be good for us is to support the evil meat industry, as you surmised. And as you also figured out, there are no scientists anywhere who believe animal protein is good for us … only feminist activists believe that. Brilliant analysis, my tofu-eating friend.

    Reply
  9. Steven Ault

    It’s difficult to understand the motivation behind the book ‘The Vegetarian Myth’. Is it the meat industry’s response to the findings by the International Convention on Climate Change? Is the motivation psychological? Is vegetarianism too mainstream or too ‘square’ now for someone like Lierre Keith, a feminist anarchist who opposes authority? I suggest the latter. It’s a strange book, and I don’t think too many colleges or universities will purchase it! No self respecting vegetarian or vegan should be perturbed by this book. After all, the science, the facts, the statistics all point to the a need for lower meat (and probably dairy) consumption. This book is ‘pseudo scientific’ and based purely on opinion. Do you listen to scientists and nutritionists, or a feminist activist? You decide. This ‘Meat Head’ bloke has some serious malfunctions! Who is he?!!! Is he not an extremist himself? His terminology would suggest so!

    Well, damn, you caught us! The only reason anyone would suggest that eating the foods we ate for millions of years might actually be good for us is to support the evil meat industry, as you surmised. And as you also figured out, there are no scientists anywhere who believe animal protein is good for us … only feminist activists believe that. Brilliant analysis, my tofu-eating friend.

    Reply
    1. Josh

      I agree. The book doesn’t dismiss MY reason for being vegan at all. It doesn’t even mention MY reasons. The book is obviously an attempt, by Lierre, to try to come to terms with her own internal turmoil.

      To me, it screams out one message: ‘I desperately tried to be vegan but failed and I can’t cope with that.’ It’s easier for her to cope if she can convince herself that veganism is impossible. She will tell you that she desperately tried, was cheating on eggs and dairy at every possible occasion. She’s said, ‘I don’t do things by halves. I was never vegetarian. I was vegan from the start.’ Mmm. Eggs and dairy are not vegan!

      Writing this book was cathartism. It’s a personal rant of an unqualified woman who read a lot of sources and then cherry-picked the ones that agreed with her.

      Neither Tom or Lierre handle people who disagree very well.

      Reply
  10. Exhale-this is tough stuff

    Well, not sure if I’ve come to the right place based on the above- but here I am nonetheless looking for an informative, balanced, open dialogue with people who are concerned with questions ethical, environmental and political about what we consume…

    I am currently vegan, quite healthy… and have been for the past ten years. I chose this diet under Lierre’s “Moral” category… making zero claims that it is nutritionally a better choice- I just can’t be convinced of that even though I subscribe to veganism right now.

    I have never thought that killing was wrong… never been squeamish about the blatant reality that life requires death AND also knew that I could never support the meat industry… that that form of mechanical indifference to life is perhaps the most violently cruel practice- in its banal detachment- that could be concocted.

    And…. I certainly resonated with Lierre’s book… I consider myself animist and cannot argue with the adult, life-cycle position she presents around the necessity of death for life… brutal, and violent at times and still fraught with beauty and creation.

    I am also currently working through both the “Omnivore’s dilemma” and the work of Gary Francione…

    Folks, I truly am on a fact finding mission such that I can make some balanced choices for myself that resonate with where I’m at.

    With that, I would love to have a list of the points that people have taken issue with in Lierre’s book, and possibly replies to them therein. Crop rotation? Kelp fertilizers? Let’s talk through the nitty gritty. I would really appreciate it if you’re up to it.

    I am left with a “Now what?” type feeling after reading her book… I still don’t feel to eat meat… living in a major Canadian city, with zero ability to hunt, no land to participate in the type of land use she supports…

    I have started looking into “ethical”, grass fed meats in my area… trying to decipher what edibles are top-soil lovin’ and producin’… and…. but….

    I worry that as a planet we have gone too far in the direction of mono-crop sustenance and factory farming to ever reach the dreamy place that Lierre sees as ideal (as do I). I wonder if technology and bizarre products… extremes of diet… will need to be the answer to a too far gone system?

    I am far more comfortable will the “natural violence” of the honourable killing of an animal as may have been the case on my great-grandmother’s farm or in the traditions of some of north america’s first peoples… but wonder how to live that out “now”.

    Veganism at least attempts to set forth with the intentionality to reduce suffering… as misguided as Lierre notes it to be (she is right).

    Intentionality, I believe, is so important… I cringe at the thought of those who have never paused to consider their impact… their role… the respect that should be afforded every morsel of what we eat using Lierre’s book as an excuse to just go ahead and continue doing what they’ve always done or start eating meat without a second thought… Flipping to her scathing criticism of farming vegans and using that as fodder to bash unbelievably well-intentioned people (complete with all their flaws) doing their best to grapple with deep ethical questions and live a better life. (I don’t know any vegans like the “pie throwing” ones… am embarrassed by them to be true…)

    I think Lierre’s book is a long time needed and essential part of a vital debate- but that there is more required. Wish I knew what that was.

    I welcome any and all information, comments, questions etc. and would especially appreciate any thoughts on the question of soundness of Lierre’s book and the specific debates occurring around those points.

    Also- I would love to hear more about how people are applying Lierre’s work into their daily lives on any and all of an individual, family, community or global scale.

    Many thanks.

    Reply
  11. Exhale-this is tough stuff

    Questions #5 and #12 look at questions Lierre addresses in the Moral Vegetarian chapter.

    Reply
  12. Exhale-this is tough stuff

    Well, not sure if I’ve come to the right place based on the above- but here I am nonetheless looking for an informative, balanced, open dialogue with people who are concerned with questions ethical, environmental and political about what we consume…

    I am currently vegan, quite healthy… and have been for the past ten years. I chose this diet under Lierre’s “Moral” category… making zero claims that it is nutritionally a better choice- I just can’t be convinced of that even though I subscribe to veganism right now.

    I have never thought that killing was wrong… never been squeamish about the blatant reality that life requires death AND also knew that I could never support the meat industry… that that form of mechanical indifference to life is perhaps the most violently cruel practice- in its banal detachment- that could be concocted.

    And…. I certainly resonated with Lierre’s book… I consider myself animist and cannot argue with the adult, life-cycle position she presents around the necessity of death for life… brutal, and violent at times and still fraught with beauty and creation.

    I am also currently working through both the “Omnivore’s dilemma” and the work of Gary Francione…

    Folks, I truly am on a fact finding mission such that I can make some balanced choices for myself that resonate with where I’m at.

    With that, I would love to have a list of the points that people have taken issue with in Lierre’s book, and possibly replies to them therein. Crop rotation? Kelp fertilizers? Let’s talk through the nitty gritty. I would really appreciate it if you’re up to it.

    I am left with a “Now what?” type feeling after reading her book… I still don’t feel to eat meat… living in a major Canadian city, with zero ability to hunt, no land to participate in the type of land use she supports…

    I have started looking into “ethical”, grass fed meats in my area… trying to decipher what edibles are top-soil lovin’ and producin’… and…. but….

    I worry that as a planet we have gone too far in the direction of mono-crop sustenance and factory farming to ever reach the dreamy place that Lierre sees as ideal (as do I). I wonder if technology and bizarre products… extremes of diet… will need to be the answer to a too far gone system?

    I am far more comfortable will the “natural violence” of the honourable killing of an animal as may have been the case on my great-grandmother’s farm or in the traditions of some of north america’s first peoples… but wonder how to live that out “now”.

    Veganism at least attempts to set forth with the intentionality to reduce suffering… as misguided as Lierre notes it to be (she is right).

    Intentionality, I believe, is so important… I cringe at the thought of those who have never paused to consider their impact… their role… the respect that should be afforded every morsel of what we eat using Lierre’s book as an excuse to just go ahead and continue doing what they’ve always done or start eating meat without a second thought… Flipping to her scathing criticism of farming vegans and using that as fodder to bash unbelievably well-intentioned people (complete with all their flaws) doing their best to grapple with deep ethical questions and live a better life. (I don’t know any vegans like the “pie throwing” ones… am embarrassed by them to be true…)

    I think Lierre’s book is a long time needed and essential part of a vital debate- but that there is more required. Wish I knew what that was.

    I welcome any and all information, comments, questions etc. and would especially appreciate any thoughts on the question of soundness of Lierre’s book and the specific debates occurring around those points.

    Also- I would love to hear more about how people are applying Lierre’s work into their daily lives on any and all of an individual, family, community or global scale.

    Many thanks.

    Reply
  13. Kathy from Maine

    Just one question that has always been in the back of my mind when I hear about PETA or some other group throwing blood on someone wearing fur.

    Where do they get the blood? Do they all donate a pint?

    Ha, I never thought of that. Maybe they saved it from their one member who had the guts to accost a biker wearing leather instead of a woman wearing fur.

    Reply
  14. Kathy from Maine

    Just one question that has always been in the back of my mind when I hear about PETA or some other group throwing blood on someone wearing fur.

    Where do they get the blood? Do they all donate a pint?

    Ha, I never thought of that. Maybe they saved it from their one member who had the guts to accost a biker wearing leather instead of a woman wearing fur.

    Reply
    1. Scott

      “20 year vegan bingeing on eggs and dairy at every possible occasion” is a contradiction in terms.

      Reply
  15. Andrés

    You should concede to her, veganrd, that she doesn’t erase disagreeing posts and she strongly promotes B12 supplementation. She promotes unfermented soy, though. Moreover, there is a very good review of “The Vegetarian Myth” pointed out by a commenter: http://www.amazon.com/review/R3M4LC3USB5H3S?ie=UTF8&ref_=cm_cr_rdp_perm. I haven’t read the book (nor I will, since I couldn’t care less about vegan ideology), but if the references are as A. Perri states them to be, it seems that it is some levels bellow Gary Taubes’s one in research thoroughness (I will buy GCBC in the short term just because that thoroughness). Not invalidating, but just as Nesy and others like to point out, you have to dig yourself to grasp what actual scientific research is saying, and it is not first class research if you don’t go to the sources. If I am getting a distorted picture, please let me know.

    Reply
      1. Tom Naughton

        People disagree with me all the time. I only call them nutcases when they’re obviously nutcases. Trying to reason with a nutcase is a waste of time.

        Reply
          1. Tom Naughton

            Well, here’s the thing: any sane, intelligent person can spot a nut-case, even without becoming a psychiatrist.

            I wrote this post about vegans who attacked Lierre Keith because they don’t like what she has to say. That makes them nut-cases. I also wrote about vegans who said she deserved to be physically attacked or set up the whole thing for publicity. That makes them nut-cases too.

            Now I have you people showing up and arguing endlessly, apparently thinking — what? — that you’re going to change my mind? That I’ll end up agreeing with you that if a group of thugs physically attack a woman, it’s really no big deal? That I’ll go back to being a vegetarian even after I linked to a long post explaining all the reasons that will never happen? That you’ll convince me Keith’s book is irrelevant because she doesn’t have a degree in nutrition?

            A sane and rational person would conclude that there’s no point showing up here and making those arguments — just as I know there’s no point in me going to vegan sites and preaching about the health benefits of eating meat and the possible dangers of a vegan diet.

            So yeah, you’re a nut-case. The fact that you’re still arguing here proves as much.

            Reply
  16. Andrés

    You should concede to her, veganrd, that she doesn’t erase disagreeing posts and she strongly promotes B12 supplementation. She promotes unfermented soy, though. Moreover, there is a very good review of “The Vegetarian Myth” pointed out by a commenter: http://www.amazon.com/review/R3M4LC3USB5H3S?ie=UTF8&ref_=cm_cr_rdp_perm. I haven’t read the book (nor I will, since I couldn’t care less about vegan ideology), but if the references are as A. Perri states them to be, it seems that it is some levels bellow Gary Taubes’s one in research thoroughness (I will buy GCBC in the short term just because that thoroughness). Not invalidating, but just as Nesy and others like to point out, you have to dig yourself to grasp what actual scientific research is saying, and it is not first class research if you don’t go to the sources. If I am getting a distorted picture, please let me know.

    Reply
      1. Tom Naughton Post author

        People disagree with me all the time. I only call them nutcases when they’re obviously nutcases. Trying to reason with a nutcase is a waste of time.

        Reply
          1. Tom Naughton Post author

            Well, here’s the thing: any sane, intelligent person can spot a nut-case, even without becoming a psychiatrist.

            I wrote this post about vegans who attacked Lierre Keith because they don’t like what she has to say. That makes them nut-cases. I also wrote about vegans who said she deserved to be physically attacked or set up the whole thing for publicity. That makes them nut-cases too.

            Now I have you people showing up and arguing endlessly, apparently thinking — what? — that you’re going to change my mind? That I’ll end up agreeing with you that if a group of thugs physically attack a woman, it’s really no big deal? That I’ll go back to being a vegetarian even after I linked to a long post explaining all the reasons that will never happen? That you’ll convince me Keith’s book is irrelevant because she doesn’t have a degree in nutrition?

            A sane and rational person would conclude that there’s no point showing up here and making those arguments — just as I know there’s no point in me going to vegan sites and preaching about the health benefits of eating meat and the possible dangers of a vegan diet.

            So yeah, you’re a nut-case. The fact that you’re still arguing here proves as much.

            Reply
  17. Rexhungus

    I recently watched the video of the incident and was outraged. Obviously she is making an impact and shaking the vegan establishment enough for them to act. I just bought her book and look forward to seeing what the fuss is all about. If I ever get a chance to attend a Keith speech I will show up with a bowl of sliced beef, sit in the front row and indulge. I probably won’t have any issues until a group of brave souls wearing masks jump me when I’m not looking and at my most vulnerable.

    I look at groups like PETA and whatever vegan organizations that are out there as havens for the mentally imbalanced. Sure there are sane people and those that think before they act, but there are enough whack jobs in those groups to give them a bad name. Its another form of religious extremists, which in my mind is evil in its own right.

    If you haven’t seen this show or this episode I recommend it. I love these guys! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inFtOMx8nDU

    Reply
  18. Rexhungus

    I recently watched the video of the incident and was outraged. Obviously she is making an impact and shaking the vegan establishment enough for them to act. I just bought her book and look forward to seeing what the fuss is all about. If I ever get a chance to attend a Keith speech I will show up with a bowl of sliced beef, sit in the front row and indulge. I probably won’t have any issues until a group of brave souls wearing masks jump me when I’m not looking and at my most vulnerable.

    I look at groups like PETA and whatever vegan organizations that are out there as havens for the mentally imbalanced. Sure there are sane people and those that think before they act, but there are enough whack jobs in those groups to give them a bad name. Its another form of religious extremists, which in my mind is evil in its own right.

    If you haven’t seen this show or this episode I recommend it. I love these guys! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inFtOMx8nDU

    Reply
  19. Wes Shaffer

    That really disgusts me with the vegan pet food thing Dogs and cats are carnivores. This is 21 second clip is from Futurama.

    Reply
  20. Wes Shaffer

    That really disgusts me with the vegan pet food thing Dogs and cats are carnivores. This is 21 second clip is from Futurama.

    Reply
  21. Kirsten Lovette

    I’m a vegan of about twenty years, I don’t know exactly when I became vegan – my family became vegan when I was young. I’ve never eaten meat/animals, except for accidental insects like aphids and such. I’m 27 years old, and I have never had any serious female problems like Lierre describes. My longest cycle was 35 days, which was very unusual. My health is good, and I don’t feel like anything is wrong with my diet. I work as a caregiver, and I carry people my size daily. I also play the sport of Judo, and I frequently ride my bike to work to save gas.

    I don’t think it’s ok, what those people did to Lierre with that pie.

    I am currently reading The Vegetarian Myth, and I am close to the end of it. The beginning of the book was shocking to me, because my whole family is vegan, and I have never even heard of a vegan being as sick as Lierre. Lierre’s book was very offensive because it seems to say that vegetarians and vegans are bound to have serious health problems and nutritional deficiencies. However, she does admit that Seventh-Day Adventists have longer, healthier lives than average Americans. She does say that Mormons beat Adventists, which may be true.

    Even though I was offended by her book, and I have no plans to stop being vegan, I did learn some things, like about lectins and phytates. The main effect this had on me was to resume taking my calcium supplement, which I have taken sporadically throughout my life, but thought I would dump in favor of more green, leafy vegetables. It also made me think that I need to soak and drain my beans very well, overnight, before I cook them. I used to be a salad-disliking vegan, but this year I am trying to eat healthier, and so far I’ve managed to quit potato chips, and add a lot more salads. My diet is not low-fat, which is something Lierre claims is a necessary attribute of vegan diets. She also seems to put coconut into the same class as animal foods, indirectly. Coconut is sometimes a part of my diet, and it doesn’t bother me that it comes from Sri Lanka. I know coconuts don’t grow in Arizona.

    In the end, I had to conclude that Lierre’s nutritional problems arose from her environmental diet and lack of nutritional guidance. I am sure I would starve to death if I tried to eat locally and environmentally. We have lots of cactus in Arizona, which are delicious, but that won’t sustain human life for very long. We have lots of pecans and vegetable farms and apple orchards, but these all require wells for water – this is the desert! Some things in my diet cannot come from Arizona. I also know that the key nutrient in a vegan diet is B-12, which may be found in yeast, but I just take a vegetarian chewable multivitamin every day to make sure I get my B-vitamins and any other vitamins and minerals I may have missed in my diet. I have never lacked protein. I used to eat a lot of soy products, but I now limit soy/tofu to once a week, because I read a book about it four years ago. I don’t eat TVP or isolated soy protein.

    One thing Lierre said in her book was that there are some people in existence who do not have the genetic components necessary to manufacture their own long-chain fatty acids from plant foods, and must eat them from animal sources. I had not heard this before, it seems very strange. I suppose this genetic variable does not exist in my family.

    Lastly, Lierre’s description of tryptophan and B-vitamin deficiencies and their relation to depression, anxiety, anorexia, and bulimia was very educational. My cousin said she worked in a group home briefly, and one of the resident teen girls was a bulimic vegan. Now I understand why this would happen. It is very sad, but I don’t believe that a vegan diet necessarily lacks tryptophan or B-vitamins. I think if a teenager wants to be vegan, she should have education about nutritional requirements and proper supplementation. My mom bought a 5-HTP supplement for my dad, and something like this might help a sick vegan.

    I’m glad your vegan diet isn’t giving you health issues. However, I’ve known a handful of vegan personally, and every one of them had major health issues, including one who had the degenerating spine issue that afflicted Lierre. Another lost 50% of the bone mass in her jaw and required reconstructive dental surgery.

    Reply
  22. Kirsten Lovette

    I’m a vegan of about twenty years, I don’t know exactly when I became vegan – my family became vegan when I was young. I’ve never eaten meat/animals, except for accidental insects like aphids and such. I’m 27 years old, and I have never had any serious female problems like Lierre describes. My longest cycle was 35 days, which was very unusual. My health is good, and I don’t feel like anything is wrong with my diet. I work as a caregiver, and I carry people my size daily. I also play the sport of Judo, and I frequently ride my bike to work to save gas.

    I don’t think it’s ok, what those people did to Lierre with that pie.

    I am currently reading The Vegetarian Myth, and I am close to the end of it. The beginning of the book was shocking to me, because my whole family is vegan, and I have never even heard of a vegan being as sick as Lierre. Lierre’s book was very offensive because it seems to say that vegetarians and vegans are bound to have serious health problems and nutritional deficiencies. However, she does admit that Seventh-Day Adventists have longer, healthier lives than average Americans. She does say that Mormons beat Adventists, which may be true.

    Even though I was offended by her book, and I have no plans to stop being vegan, I did learn some things, like about lectins and phytates. The main effect this had on me was to resume taking my calcium supplement, which I have taken sporadically throughout my life, but thought I would dump in favor of more green, leafy vegetables. It also made me think that I need to soak and drain my beans very well, overnight, before I cook them. I used to be a salad-disliking vegan, but this year I am trying to eat healthier, and so far I’ve managed to quit potato chips, and add a lot more salads. My diet is not low-fat, which is something Lierre claims is a necessary attribute of vegan diets. She also seems to put coconut into the same class as animal foods, indirectly. Coconut is sometimes a part of my diet, and it doesn’t bother me that it comes from Sri Lanka. I know coconuts don’t grow in Arizona.

    In the end, I had to conclude that Lierre’s nutritional problems arose from her environmental diet and lack of nutritional guidance. I am sure I would starve to death if I tried to eat locally and environmentally. We have lots of cactus in Arizona, which are delicious, but that won’t sustain human life for very long. We have lots of pecans and vegetable farms and apple orchards, but these all require wells for water – this is the desert! Some things in my diet cannot come from Arizona. I also know that the key nutrient in a vegan diet is B-12, which may be found in yeast, but I just take a vegetarian chewable multivitamin every day to make sure I get my B-vitamins and any other vitamins and minerals I may have missed in my diet. I have never lacked protein. I used to eat a lot of soy products, but I now limit soy/tofu to once a week, because I read a book about it four years ago. I don’t eat TVP or isolated soy protein.

    One thing Lierre said in her book was that there are some people in existence who do not have the genetic components necessary to manufacture their own long-chain fatty acids from plant foods, and must eat them from animal sources. I had not heard this before, it seems very strange. I suppose this genetic variable does not exist in my family.

    Lastly, Lierre’s description of tryptophan and B-vitamin deficiencies and their relation to depression, anxiety, anorexia, and bulimia was very educational. My cousin said she worked in a group home briefly, and one of the resident teen girls was a bulimic vegan. Now I understand why this would happen. It is very sad, but I don’t believe that a vegan diet necessarily lacks tryptophan or B-vitamins. I think if a teenager wants to be vegan, she should have education about nutritional requirements and proper supplementation. My mom bought a 5-HTP supplement for my dad, and something like this might help a sick vegan.

    I’m glad your vegan diet isn’t giving you health issues. However, I’ve known a handful of vegan personally, and every one of them had major health issues, including one who had the degenerating spine issue that afflicted Lierre. Another lost 50% of the bone mass in her jaw and required reconstructive dental surgery.

    Reply
  23. Kirsten Lovette

    It just baffles me that the writer of this blog has never met a vegan without serious health issues. We certainly exist, and Lierre attempts to deny our existence.

    Amenorrhea in women of child-bearing age is a very serious problem. Although most women would be happy to be free from periods, it is a necessary part of female biology, associated with a cycle of hormones that affect calcium absorption and deposition. Amenorrhea does lead to bone loss. It is generally caused by caloric deficiency. This often happens in athletes, even though they are usually not vegan. It also happens in anorexics. Not eating enough, whatever type of dietary habits you have, can cause this problem. It is not caused by veganism.

    I read her book and she doesn’t deny that there are vegans without health problems. She recounts the health problems she and other vegan friends experienced.

    Reply
    1. Sarah

      I’m sorry but Lierre states very clearly that ALL VEGANS 100% will have health problems.

      I emailed her and that’s what she said.

      Reply
  24. Kirsten Lovette

    It just baffles me that the writer of this blog has never met a vegan without serious health issues. We certainly exist, and Lierre attempts to deny our existence.

    Amenorrhea in women of child-bearing age is a very serious problem. Although most women would be happy to be free from periods, it is a necessary part of female biology, associated with a cycle of hormones that affect calcium absorption and deposition. Amenorrhea does lead to bone loss. It is generally caused by caloric deficiency. This often happens in athletes, even though they are usually not vegan. It also happens in anorexics. Not eating enough, whatever type of dietary habits you have, can cause this problem. It is not caused by veganism.

    I read her book and she doesn’t deny that there are vegans without health problems. She recounts the health problems she and other vegan friends experienced.

    Reply
    1. Sarah

      I’m sorry but Lierre states very clearly that ALL VEGANS 100% will have health problems.

      I emailed her and that’s what she said.

      Reply
  25. Ruthie S

    I am so grateful for your and Lierre’s voices of razor-sharp intelligence, humanity, and truth amidst very ill societal norms. Thank you.

    Reply
  26. Ruthie S

    I am so grateful for your and Lierre’s voices of razor-sharp intelligence, humanity, and truth amidst very ill societal norms. Thank you.

    Reply
  27. Veganist

    Hello Tom. I have been reading some of your post where you have strong opinions of vegans and vegetarians and after watching your documentary Fat Head this morning I was a bit disappointed to read the type of things you have been saying to people. Now let’s start off, I am a vegan, but I am not here to tell you are wrong and I am right. Now those people who threw these pies, whether they were vegans or not is plain out wrong. It doesn’t matter if the victim was a woman, a person with an injury, or Arnold Schwarzenegger. You don’t throw pies in peoples faces for any reason, what so ever, no matter who they are. Violence is against veganism, and that includes violence to humans and animals. Now I know I can’t be pure 100% cruelty free, that’s not rational, but I make a strong effort to do what I can.

    Now I have been reading the comments and something that was striking to me, was when I read YOUR comments Tom, I see a lot of name calling and putting people down. I have read what the vegans have wrote and not one of them called you any names, or tried to put you down in any way. They were just plainly trying to state their points. At no time did these “angry, self righteous vegans” call anyone a moron, a Nazi, said your brain was depleted in anyway, called anyone an a$$hole, troll or called you a nut-job which you have called people numerous times in your comments and articles.

    I find these responses kind of childish when it’s coming from a man in his 50s. These comments are almost or equally as childish as those people who threw those pies in that woman’s face.

    Coming back to that subject I wonder how the backstage staff didn’t notice black cloaked/masked people backstage? Where is the security? That entrance was very smooth (all in single file) when it wouldn’t have been that way if security was doing their jobs. Plus there are technicians, clean up staff, sound crew, managers, organizers and no one notice these 3 dudes on the sidelines c’mon? My father works in security in a bar and when there’s a disturbance, even on the busiest days where the bar is jammed packed, security is at the location in seconds, so how these people passed security, management staff, general public, admissions crew, organizers baffles me!

    Back to my point, it seems like your comments are very hostile and include a lot of name calling and put down towards people. Even if people comment and just state their vegan, you claim that their trolling. You have called so many vegans trolls, that brought up good arguments as do you, but if some one brings up an argument that favors yours, they are not trolls. So are you calling people trolls just because they are indifferent to you? Both omnivorous and vegan sides have brought up amazing points but only one side you claim are trolls. Why?

    I know this is your blog, and you can do what ever you please with it, but it surprises me that some one who made a very informative documentary can be such a name caller and frankly… a bully. Now you may say well I am just standing up for my “cult” as you seem to think that veganism is a self righteous religious group but no matter who the person, what their belief, what colour they are, gender or nationality, no one deserves to be called names such as a$$hole, moron, or nut-job. I have read your comments for hours and would like to keep reading them but every time I see you call someone names I just think to myself “Tom, is that really necessary to get your point across?” You may think it is, or it isn’t, but if your trying to represent some one who advocates a high fat, high saturated diet, you should probably bring down the name calling or you might turn people away. It just brings me down when some one who has made a well put together documentary could bully in a way that a 4th grader would.

    Again, this is your blog and I am not here to tell you what to do, and I wish for a day where omnivores and vegans can at least be at peace with each other. They don’t have to like each others philosophies or eating habits, but name calling? I highly recommend you don’t encourage behavior such as name calling. Please Tom 🙂

    Peace Be With You!

    You’ll have to be more specific. I’m polite to people who are polite. I call people trolls if they keep showing up here preaching the same old nonsense from the same old cherry-picked sources. It gets tiresome. This is a blog clearly dedicated to low-carb/paleo diets. I don’t bother visiting vegan blogs to argue with the writers because I’m not on a mission to convert the heathens, unlike some of the vegans who show up here. I have no problem with vegans who choose that diet for themselves and don’t try to preach to the rest of us.

    Some also attempt to post several times under different names — easy to spot because the IP address is the same — and yes, I call those people trolls.

    Reply
  28. Veganist

    Hello Tom. I have been reading some of your post where you have strong opinions of vegans and vegetarians and after watching your documentary Fat Head this morning I was a bit disappointed to read the type of things you have been saying to people. Now let’s start off, I am a vegan, but I am not here to tell you are wrong and I am right. Now those people who threw these pies, whether they were vegans or not is plain out wrong. It doesn’t matter if the victim was a woman, a person with an injury, or Arnold Schwarzenegger. You don’t throw pies in peoples faces for any reason, what so ever, no matter who they are. Violence is against veganism, and that includes violence to humans and animals. Now I know I can’t be pure 100% cruelty free, that’s not rational, but I make a strong effort to do what I can.

    Now I have been reading the comments and something that was striking to me, was when I read YOUR comments Tom, I see a lot of name calling and putting people down. I have read what the vegans have wrote and not one of them called you any names, or tried to put you down in any way. They were just plainly trying to state their points. At no time did these “angry, self righteous vegans” call anyone a moron, a Nazi, said your brain was depleted in anyway, called anyone an a$$hole, troll or called you a nut-job which you have called people numerous times in your comments and articles.

    I find these responses kind of childish when it’s coming from a man in his 50s. These comments are almost or equally as childish as those people who threw those pies in that woman’s face.

    Coming back to that subject I wonder how the backstage staff didn’t notice black cloaked/masked people backstage? Where is the security? That entrance was very smooth (all in single file) when it wouldn’t have been that way if security was doing their jobs. Plus there are technicians, clean up staff, sound crew, managers, organizers and no one notice these 3 dudes on the sidelines c’mon? My father works in security in a bar and when there’s a disturbance, even on the busiest days where the bar is jammed packed, security is at the location in seconds, so how these people passed security, management staff, general public, admissions crew, organizers baffles me!

    Back to my point, it seems like your comments are very hostile and include a lot of name calling and put down towards people. Even if people comment and just state their vegan, you claim that their trolling. You have called so many vegans trolls, that brought up good arguments as do you, but if some one brings up an argument that favors yours, they are not trolls. So are you calling people trolls just because they are indifferent to you? Both omnivorous and vegan sides have brought up amazing points but only one side you claim are trolls. Why?

    I know this is your blog, and you can do what ever you please with it, but it surprises me that some one who made a very informative documentary can be such a name caller and frankly… a bully. Now you may say well I am just standing up for my “cult” as you seem to think that veganism is a self righteous religious group but no matter who the person, what their belief, what colour they are, gender or nationality, no one deserves to be called names such as a$$hole, moron, or nut-job. I have read your comments for hours and would like to keep reading them but every time I see you call someone names I just think to myself “Tom, is that really necessary to get your point across?” You may think it is, or it isn’t, but if your trying to represent some one who advocates a high fat, high saturated diet, you should probably bring down the name calling or you might turn people away. It just brings me down when some one who has made a well put together documentary could bully in a way that a 4th grader would.

    Again, this is your blog and I am not here to tell you what to do, and I wish for a day where omnivores and vegans can at least be at peace with each other. They don’t have to like each others philosophies or eating habits, but name calling? I highly recommend you don’t encourage behavior such as name calling. Please Tom 🙂

    Peace Be With You!

    You’ll have to be more specific. I’m polite to people who are polite. I call people trolls if they keep showing up here preaching the same old nonsense from the same old cherry-picked sources. It gets tiresome. This is a blog clearly dedicated to low-carb/paleo diets. I don’t bother visiting vegan blogs to argue with the writers because I’m not on a mission to convert the heathens, unlike some of the vegans who show up here. I have no problem with vegans who choose that diet for themselves and don’t try to preach to the rest of us.

    Some also attempt to post several times under different names — easy to spot because the IP address is the same — and yes, I call those people trolls.

    Reply
  29. Isabel

    Hello!

    I’m very disappointed by the way you speak.
    You could add humor to your words without being rude and so judgmental.
    Your article is just as hostile as the pie throwing.
    Seriously, i don’t understand why meat eaters have raised this war against Vegans.
    Do you feel insulted by them?
    What exactly is so wrong about people that fight for animal and human rights and that Live in more harmony with this beautiful Earth? Why does this nobel action irritates so many people?
    I Love it, and fortunatly i’m growing myself to be like them. Not the trowing pie king of people, but the ones that give up on craving and confort to built a better world with their everyday actions.
    Go Vegan and Go Respect*

    War against vegans? Are you serious? If you ever hear of a meat-eater physically attacking a vegetarian for not eating meat, be sure to let me know. if you ever hear of a meat-eater walking into a grocery store and trashing the vegetable aisle, be sure to let me know. If you ever hear of a meat-eater spraying carrot juice on a vegetarian for refusing to wear fur, be sure to let me know.

    I don’t have any problem with vegans being vegans. But I definitely have a problem with those who act like the vegan Hezbollah.

    Reply
    1. Sarah

      “Another vegan nut-job chimes in.”

      Wow! I’m absolutely astounded by your logical reasoning.

      I wonder what (if any) ridiculous comments you might add to my posts.

      Reply
      1. Tom Naughton

        Oh, I can explain that: you’re a vegan and you can’t help yourself. See, I can help myself, which is why I never waste my time or anyone else’s by showing up on vegan sites and arguing with them.

        Reply
        1. Scott

          But it appears you can’t help but reply to every single message where a vegan disagrees. You say you never waste your time arguing with them on other websites. You never present any arguments. Insults are not arguments.

          You say you got ill on a vegetarian diet. So, that could explain your resentment, nastiness and hostility. I think anyone who failed at someone would be a bit pissed off with others that succeed.

          Reply
          1. Tom Naughton

            I never present arguments? Seriously? I’ve presented plenty of arguments on this blog. Since the vegan zealots show up here on a regular basis, I wrote this post to save myself the trouble of answering the same stupid arguments over and over:

            http://www.fathead-movie.com/index.php/2015/03/31/to-the-vegetarian-evangelists-updated/

            If you read the blog, you’ll notice I answer nearly every comment. But if you expect me to waste my time writing a long, reasoned argument to every vegan nut-job who shows up here, sorry, that’s not going to happen. When people show up and write stupid things (such as all the variations on “bitch had it coming to her” about the attack on Keith), pointing out the stupidity is the proper response.

            Reply
  30. Isabel

    Hello!

    I’m very disappointed by the way you speak.
    You could add humor to your words without being rude and so judgmental.
    Your article is just as hostile as the pie throwing.
    Seriously, i don’t understand why meat eaters have raised this war against Vegans.
    Do you feel insulted by them?
    What exactly is so wrong about people that fight for animal and human rights and that Live in more harmony with this beautiful Earth? Why does this nobel action irritates so many people?
    I Love it, and fortunatly i’m growing myself to be like them. Not the trowing pie king of people, but the ones that give up on craving and confort to built a better world with their everyday actions.
    Go Vegan and Go Respect*

    War against vegans? Are you serious? If you ever hear of a meat-eater physically attacking a vegetarian for not eating meat, be sure to let me know. if you ever hear of a meat-eater walking into a grocery store and trashing the vegetable aisle, be sure to let me know. If you ever hear of a meat-eater spraying carrot juice on a vegetarian for refusing to wear fur, be sure to let me know.

    I don’t have any problem with vegans being vegans. But I definitely have a problem with those who act like the vegan Hezbollah.

    Reply
    1. Sarah

      “Another vegan nut-job chimes in.”

      Wow! I’m absolutely astounded by your logical reasoning.

      I wonder what (if any) ridiculous comments you might add to my posts.

      Reply
      1. Tom Naughton Post author

        Oh, I can explain that: you’re a vegan and you can’t help yourself. See, I can help myself, which is why I never waste my time or anyone else’s by showing up on vegan sites and arguing with them.

        Reply
        1. Scott

          But it appears you can’t help but reply to every single message where a vegan disagrees. You say you never waste your time arguing with them on other websites. You never present any arguments. Insults are not arguments.

          You say you got ill on a vegetarian diet. So, that could explain your resentment, nastiness and hostility. I think anyone who failed at someone would be a bit pissed off with others that succeed.

          Reply
          1. Tom Naughton Post author

            I never present arguments? Seriously? I’ve presented plenty of arguments on this blog. Since the vegan zealots show up here on a regular basis, I wrote this post to save myself the trouble of answering the same stupid arguments over and over:

            http://www.fathead-movie.com/index.php/2015/03/31/to-the-vegetarian-evangelists-updated/

            If you read the blog, you’ll notice I answer nearly every comment. But if you expect me to waste my time writing a long, reasoned argument to every vegan nut-job who shows up here, sorry, that’s not going to happen. When people show up and write stupid things (such as all the variations on “bitch had it coming to her” about the attack on Keith), pointing out the stupidity is the proper response.

            Reply
  31. SMC

    ‘The Vegetarian Myth’ is chock-full of factual errors & promotes harmful, unhealthy habits quoting dubious / illegitimate sources. Author Lierre Keith misrepresents herself by packaging her misnomers & ‘myths’ in the form of knowledge-based advice while telling meat-eaters what they want to hear. She claims to be a feminist but is a fraud in every sense. As for this site, the only sound advice contained herein is from contributors, in the ‘Comments’ section. Shame!

    Another vegan nut-job chimes in.

    Reply
    1. Sarah

      Tom’s Psychology:

      “Mmmm. This person is disagreeing and appears to be vegan (even though they don’t say that). I don’t like this but have not got the patience, time or effort to present a rational argument so I’ll just splash out an insult.”

      Let me do it for you:

      “Err. Some vegan-nutjob. Come back and tell me when meat-eaters have ever done anything wrong ever, in the history of ever. ”

      I’m not coming back. It’s like being in a kid’s playground.

      Reply
      1. Tom Naughton

        Sarah Psychology: “Veganism is the one true faith, and anyone who says otherwise is an infidel. So when someone like Lierre Keith is attacked physically, it not only doesn’t bother me at all, I can actually twist my brain into a strange enough shape to convince myself she’s the one at fault in this whole episode.”

        Sarah, your “rational argument” is that Keith is a liar and the attack was a publicity stunt — because you say so. Oh, and because someone who was just mugged should call a doctor, not the cops.

        Many vegans have shown up to comment on the attack, and you know what they don’t say? They don’t say, “I’m a vegan, all committed to peace and nonviolence and such, so I find this attack to be an utter outrage, even if I disagree with Keith.” If I saw that comment, I’d know I’m dealing with a rational person.

        Instead, the comments are a variation on 1) she planned the whole thing for publicity, 2) bitch had it coming to her, or 3) the attack was no big deal. Those are the rationalizations of nut-jobs who simply can’t bring themselves to admit that perhaps some vegans committed an outrage.

        When people show up here and make stupid arguments like those, pointing out the stupidity is, in fact, the rational response. If you want a long rational response, this is the one I wrote long ago:

        http://www.fathead-movie.com/index.php/2015/03/31/to-the-vegetarian-evangelists-updated/

        You’re not coming back?!! Oh, no, is that a threat?

        Reply
        1. Scooze

          Wow they really just can’t help themselves, can they? This urge to go to get in the face of meat eaters and spew venom is so strong… I guess I’d be pretty hateful, too, if my diet made me miserable.

          Reply
          1. Tom Naughton

            The goofs showing up here the past few days remind me of a joke:

            Q: How many vegans does it take to change a light bulb?

            A: @#$% YOU, THAT’S NOT FUNNY, YOU MURDERER!!!

            Not a happy lot, are they?

            Reply
  32. SMC

    ‘The Vegetarian Myth’ is chock-full of factual errors & promotes harmful, unhealthy habits quoting dubious / illegitimate sources. Author Lierre Keith misrepresents herself by packaging her misnomers & ‘myths’ in the form of knowledge-based advice while telling meat-eaters what they want to hear. She claims to be a feminist but is a fraud in every sense. As for this site, the only sound advice contained herein is from contributors, in the ‘Comments’ section. Shame!

    Another vegan nut-job chimes in.

    Reply
    1. Sarah

      Tom’s Psychology:

      “Mmmm. This person is disagreeing and appears to be vegan (even though they don’t say that). I don’t like this but have not got the patience, time or effort to present a rational argument so I’ll just splash out an insult.”

      Let me do it for you:

      “Err. Some vegan-nutjob. Come back and tell me when meat-eaters have ever done anything wrong ever, in the history of ever. ”

      I’m not coming back. It’s like being in a kid’s playground.

      Reply
      1. Tom Naughton Post author

        Sarah Psychology: “Veganism is the one true faith, and anyone who says otherwise is an infidel. So when someone like Lierre Keith is attacked physically, it not only doesn’t bother me at all, I can actually twist my brain into a strange enough shape to convince myself she’s the one at fault in this whole episode.”

        Sarah, your “rational argument” is that Keith is a liar and the attack was a publicity stunt — because you say so. Oh, and because someone who was just mugged should call a doctor, not the cops.

        Many vegans have shown up to comment on the attack, and you know what they don’t say? They don’t say, “I’m a vegan, all committed to peace and nonviolence and such, so I find this attack to be an utter outrage, even if I disagree with Keith.” If I saw that comment, I’d know I’m dealing with a rational person.

        Instead, the comments are a variation on 1) she planned the whole thing for publicity, 2) bitch had it coming to her, or 3) the attack was no big deal. Those are the rationalizations of nut-jobs who simply can’t bring themselves to admit that perhaps some vegans committed an outrage.

        When people show up here and make stupid arguments like those, pointing out the stupidity is, in fact, the rational response. If you want a long rational response, this is the one I wrote long ago:

        http://www.fathead-movie.com/index.php/2015/03/31/to-the-vegetarian-evangelists-updated/

        You’re not coming back?!! Oh, no, is that a threat?

        Reply
        1. Scooze

          Wow they really just can’t help themselves, can they? This urge to go to get in the face of meat eaters and spew venom is so strong… I guess I’d be pretty hateful, too, if my diet made me miserable.

          Reply
          1. Tom Naughton Post author

            The goofs showing up here the past few days remind me of a joke:

            Q: How many vegans does it take to change a light bulb?

            A: @#$% YOU, THAT’S NOT FUNNY, YOU MURDERER!!!

            Not a happy lot, are they?

            Reply
  33. sandy stewart

    check out the documental movie forks over knives very well known Cleveland clinic heart surgeon states that meat eating is the cause of heart disease and by not eating MEAT heart disease as WE KNOW IT WOULD NOT EXIST but I still eat fish now and then I personally think as a person ages they should eat lighter because the digestive juices slow down which just makes sense. You don’t want that meat sitting in there too long ugh… I do have gallbladder problem but that’s why I cant eat red meat without a gallbladder attack my body cant digest meat. So for now I eat vegetarian with some fish no dairy or meat. I am thankful I can eat the way I do.

    Reply
    1. Tom Naughton

      Perhaps you missed the post about how Bill Clinton’s doctor chided him for eating a roll and told him plenty of vegans have heart attacks.

      Reply
  34. sandy stewart

    check out the documental movie forks over knives very well known Cleveland clinic heart surgeon states that meat eating is the cause of heart disease and by not eating MEAT heart disease as WE KNOW IT WOULD NOT EXIST but I still eat fish now and then I personally think as a person ages they should eat lighter because the digestive juices slow down which just makes sense. You don’t want that meat sitting in there too long ugh… I do have gallbladder problem but that’s why I cant eat red meat without a gallbladder attack my body cant digest meat. So for now I eat vegetarian with some fish no dairy or meat. I am thankful I can eat the way I do.

    Reply
    1. Tom Naughton Post author

      Perhaps you missed the post about how Bill Clinton’s doctor chided him for eating a roll and told him plenty of vegans have heart attacks.

      Reply
  35. Johnny

    How do you know they were vegan? You realise that Lierre is disliked by some members of the LGBT movement for her bashing of transwomen, don’t you? (It’s odd how she doesn’t appear to have a problem with transmen). What evidence is there that pepper was involved? I don’t believe anything this woman says.

    Reply
  36. Johnny

    How do you know they were vegan? You realise that Lierre is disliked by some members of the LGBT movement for her bashing of transwomen, don’t you? (It’s odd how she doesn’t appear to have a problem with transmen). What evidence is there that pepper was involved? I don’t believe anything this woman says.

    Reply
    1. Tom Naughton Post author

      That’s because you’re a true-believer zealot without a functioning brain in your head.

      Reply
  37. Sarah

    If I had pepper thrown in my face, I wouldn’t say, “Call the cops!”. I’d say call a doctor.

    “Damn, you caught us. See, that’s the thing about us meat-eaters: we take ourselves and our identities as meat-eaters so seriously, we sit around and try to think of ways to split up the vegan movement.”

    Oh, wait! Didn’t LK’s book sales rocket after this event? Yes. They did. LK bragged about it. Do you think LK doesn’t take her book sales so seriously that she tries to think of ways to create publicity stunts.

    “You sound eerily sane. How long have you been a vegan?”

    Cheap crack. I think you use “humor” to try to disguise the fact that you have no actual, rational argument.

    I could rip this article to pieces but, if I had to point out every stupid, ignorant point people make, I’d have no time for my own life.

    Kids at school mock each other. Not intelligent adults.

    Lierre has told so many lies, she can’t be trusted.

    Reply
    1. Tom Naughton

      So Lierre actually planned to have a pepper pie smashed into her face as a publicity stunt to boost book sales? That’s your contention?

      Thank you so much for posting … if anyone needed more evidence that vegans are nut-jobs, you just provided it.

      Reply
      1. Scott

        The post to which you reply does not say that Lierre planned to have a pepper pie thrown in her face. The post is obviously asking why Lierre didn’t ask to see a doctor.

        I don’t believe Lierre Keith. She is an outright liar. If you’ve ever heard the story of the Boy Who Cried Wolf, you’d realise that there comes a point where people stop believing what you say.

        To me, her book is totally untrustworthy. Too many lies. Too many mistakes. Too much bias.

        Even though you’ve now labelled me as “a vegan nut-case”, I’m not prepared to put my trust in someone who simply isn’t reliable. And your website is exactly what you’d expect from a comedian – A laughing stock.

        Reply
        1. Tom Naughton

          To quote directly from the post to which I replied:

          “Oh, wait! Didn’t LK’s book sales rocket after this event? Yes. They did. LK bragged about it. Do you think LK doesn’t take her book sales so seriously that she tries to think of ways to create publicity stunts.”

          If you don’t think the poster was suggesting Keith’s attack was nothing but a publicity stunt, you might want to look into a remedial course in reading and comprehension. That’s exactly what the nut-job is suggesting. And “If I were attacked, I’d call a doctor instead of the cops” is clearly an attempt to suggest the attack wasn’t real.

          And as I’ve already mentioned, all these comments from vegans keep showing up, and they all attempt to justify, rationalize, or minimize a physical attack on a woman. Nobody seems to show up to say a physical attack is an outrage, even if you disagree with what’s being said. So yes, that makes you all a bunch of nut-jobs. True Believers. Zealots. Rational people don’t try to justify physical attacks. If the nut-jobs who attacked Keith had taken her away and beheaded her, you mental midgets would be claiming it’s no big deal and she probably set it up to boost her book sales.

          Yes, I gathered that you don’t agree with her book and don’t consider her reliable. I wouldn’t expect you to, any more than I’d expect any other religious zealot to entertain doubts about his religion.

          Reply
  38. Scott

    From what I’ve read, you know Lierre personally. I’ve emailed her a few times to ask her what scientific background she has but I’ve received no reply. I’ve searched the internet and found nothing.

    Lierre states that she chose what to include and what to dismiss “using the scientific method”.

    Out of all the pro-vegan, neutral and anti-vegan literature, she has cherry-picked the anti-vegan literature. This is called “cherry-picking”.

    Could you tell your readers what qualifications she has that other writers do not have?

    Or maybe you can assume I’m vegan and call me a ‘nutjob’ and then start talking about things that have absolutely nothing to do with me.

    Reply
      1. Scott

        Why did Lierre remove her CV from her website. It was there before and now it’s disappeared. It’s been gone for a very long time. I’m perfectly aware (because I saw her CV a few years ago) that she has no scientific background. But you haven’t actually said how she decided which to include and which to reject?

        Why should anyone believe someone who effectively expects people to trust her. With absolutely nothing to show it.

        The woman was vegan for 20 years and binged on eggs and dairy at every possible occasion. She, like yourself, is a name-caller, yet she claims that vegans are immature and childish. Reading through your responses, it appears that you’re very immature and, just like Lierre, can’t bear people disagreeing with you.

        Thanks for your reply…Which I will not bother to read.

        Reply
        1. Tom Naughton

          Well, that’s a shame, because I going to tell you what a fine and intelligent person you are.

          I was also going to tell you that I’m getting rid of all my light bulbs and throwing away my bifocals, since neither Thomas Edison or Ben Franklin had a formal “scientific background.” I’m also going to quit my high-paying job as a software programmer, since I’ve never attended a class in programming and don’t have a degree in programming. As you’ve correctly concluded, only people with official degrees are actually qualified.

          Reply
          1. Scott

            Did I conclude that? You must be hallucinating.

            I asked why I should believe Lierre rather than someone else?

            As for those examples: They provided EVIDENCE – Light bulbs and bifocals.

            I repeat my question: WHY SHOULD I BELIEVE YOU OR LIERRE KEITH?

            Reply
  39. Peter Wintrip

    I’ve been vegan since birth. I’m 15 years old and healthy. I emailed Lierre to tell her my story and she replied, “We both know that that’s not possible.”

    Reply
    1. Tom Naughton

      Then I’d disagree with her on that. Name almost any diet, some people will do well and some people won’t.

      Reply
  40. Sarah

    If I had pepper thrown in my face, I wouldn’t say, “Call the cops!”. I’d say call a doctor.

    “Damn, you caught us. See, that’s the thing about us meat-eaters: we take ourselves and our identities as meat-eaters so seriously, we sit around and try to think of ways to split up the vegan movement.”

    Oh, wait! Didn’t LK’s book sales rocket after this event? Yes. They did. LK bragged about it. Do you think LK doesn’t take her book sales so seriously that she tries to think of ways to create publicity stunts.

    “You sound eerily sane. How long have you been a vegan?”

    Cheap crack. I think you use “humor” to try to disguise the fact that you have no actual, rational argument.

    I could rip this article to pieces but, if I had to point out every stupid, ignorant point people make, I’d have no time for my own life.

    Kids at school mock each other. Not intelligent adults.

    Lierre has told so many lies, she can’t be trusted.

    Reply
    1. Tom Naughton Post author

      So Lierre actually planned to have a pepper pie smashed into her face as a publicity stunt to boost book sales? That’s your contention?

      Thank you so much for posting … if anyone needed more evidence that vegans are nut-jobs, you just provided it.

      Reply
      1. Scott

        The post to which you reply does not say that Lierre planned to have a pepper pie thrown in her face. The post is obviously asking why Lierre didn’t ask to see a doctor.

        I don’t believe Lierre Keith. She is an outright liar. If you’ve ever heard the story of the Boy Who Cried Wolf, you’d realise that there comes a point where people stop believing what you say.

        To me, her book is totally untrustworthy. Too many lies. Too many mistakes. Too much bias.

        Even though you’ve now labelled me as “a vegan nut-case”, I’m not prepared to put my trust in someone who simply isn’t reliable. And your website is exactly what you’d expect from a comedian – A laughing stock.

        Reply
        1. Tom Naughton Post author

          To quote directly from the post to which I replied:

          “Oh, wait! Didn’t LK’s book sales rocket after this event? Yes. They did. LK bragged about it. Do you think LK doesn’t take her book sales so seriously that she tries to think of ways to create publicity stunts.”

          If you don’t think the poster was suggesting Keith’s attack was nothing but a publicity stunt, you might want to look into a remedial course in reading and comprehension. That’s exactly what the nut-job is suggesting. And “If I were attacked, I’d call a doctor instead of the cops” is clearly an attempt to suggest the attack wasn’t real.

          And as I’ve already mentioned, all these comments from vegans keep showing up, and they all attempt to justify, rationalize, or minimize a physical attack on a woman. Nobody seems to show up to say a physical attack is an outrage, even if you disagree with what’s being said. So yes, that makes you all a bunch of nut-jobs. True Believers. Zealots. Rational people don’t try to justify physical attacks. If the nut-jobs who attacked Keith had taken her away and beheaded her, you mental midgets would be claiming it’s no big deal and she probably set it up to boost her book sales.

          Yes, I gathered that you don’t agree with her book and don’t consider her reliable. I wouldn’t expect you to, any more than I’d expect any other religious zealot to entertain doubts about his religion.

          Reply
          1. Sarah

            No. I did not say that Lierre planned the attack. You do this all the time. Junp to conckusions.

            I can’t know what happened on that day.

            3 people appear to have thrown something at LK. Lierre says she asked for the cops to be called. She hasn’t mentioned a doctor. If my eyes were stinging so badly that my eyes were still red and sore more than a week later, I would have seen a doctor. Or am I just a vegan nutjob?

            This is one reason that some of us vegan nutjobs don’t think you’re a credible.source of infornation. You extract information from comments, based on your previous beliefs and prejudices. Nowhere…NOWHERE DID I SAY THE PIE ATTACK WAS STAGED.

            confirmation bias
            noun
            the tendency to interpret new evidence as confirmation of one’s existing beliefs or theories.

            Reply
            1. Tom Naughton Post author

              Thank you for enlightening me. When you wrote this …

              “Oh, wait! Didn’t LK’s book sales rocket after this event? Yes. They did. LK bragged about it. Do you think LK doesn’t take her book sales so seriously that she tries to think of ways to create publicity stunts.”

              … I somehow interpreted that as a suggestion that it was all a publicity stunt by someone who takes her book sales so seriously that she tries of think of ways to create publicity stunts. I can’t imagine how I came to that conclusion, given that you were so crystal clear that you don’t support thugs attacking a woman just because she says things they don’t like.

              I’m also not sure how I came to the conclusion that you don’t consider the attack any big deal. Obviously, when you wrote …

              “She hasn’t mentioned a doctor. If my eyes were stinging so badly that my eyes were still red and sore more than a week later, I would have seen a doctor.”

              … you weren’t in any way suggesting she wasn’t actually harmed in order to minimize the actions of the thugs. I now see the errors in my conclusions and applaud you for your sincere dedication to non-violence and tolerance of opposing views.

            2. Sarah

              I’ve accidently got chilli powder in my eye when making food. It’s painful. When it happens, I am not in any fit state to wait around and give statements to police, which Lierre was seen to do.

              Take that how you may. If it were a court case, this sort of question would be asked. ‘Why didn’t you call the doctor?

            3. Tom Naughton Post author

              Yes, thanks to your relentless logic, I now see that her claim there was pepper in the pie was simply a lie told by a woman who takes her book sales so seriously that she tries to think of ways to create publicity stunts. And as you’ve concluded (because of your relentless logic), if Keith didn’t specifically mention calling a doctor, it means she never saw one, which in turn means she wasn’t actually injured. I don’t know how I missed that.

              Obviously what happened is that after the attack, her first thought was “Hey, if I make up a false claim that there was pepper in those pies, I can really boost my book sales!” After all, a bunch of peace-loving, non-violent vegans would never put pepper in a pie they intended to throw at a woman. Vegans are all highly moral people who abhor violence, as you’ve correctly concluded.

              So again, many thanks to you and your WiFi-sharing vegan friends for showing me the errors in my thinking.

            4. Craig Rich

              Are we sure Sarah isn’t someone trying to make vegans look like morons? Does being vegan really make one’s brain not function? If I write “why isn’t she calling a doctor?”, then I’m obviously saying I doubt her. If I doubt her, I think she’s lying. If she’s lying, then either she staged the attack herself or she’s milking it. In either case, I’m trying to send the message that the attack was not bad and Keith is lying about something. How can these vegans not see how dumb they look?

              And they are posting with the benefit of hind-sight. They can see posts from years past that nobody took seriously. All they have to do is say “I think this attack was a terrible thing and no sane human would ever do such a thing.” Something along those lines to at least establish a modicum of credibility. But in each case, they prove you correct: they obviously think this attack was perfectly fine and acceptable. And then they wonder why we think they are nutjobs…

            5. Tom Naughton Post author

              If Sarah is someone trying to make vegans look like morons, she’s doing a fine job of it. Same goes for the other goofs who started showing up this weekend. That’s why I’ve been sitting here laughing and shaking my head with each new comment they post. They keep justifying or minimizing an attack on a woman for speaking, apparently unaware that they’re making themselves look like the vegan equivalents of Hezbollah. They’re damaging their own cause but are too stupid to recognize that.

  41. Scott

    From what I’ve read, you know Lierre personally. I’ve emailed her a few times to ask her what scientific background she has but I’ve received no reply. I’ve searched the internet and found nothing.

    Lierre states that she chose what to include and what to dismiss “using the scientific method”.

    Out of all the pro-vegan, neutral and anti-vegan literature, she has cherry-picked the anti-vegan literature. This is called “cherry-picking”.

    Could you tell your readers what qualifications she has that other writers do not have?

    Or maybe you can assume I’m vegan and call me a ‘nutjob’ and then start talking about things that have absolutely nothing to do with me.

    Reply
      1. Scott

        Why did Lierre remove her CV from her website. It was there before and now it’s disappeared. It’s been gone for a very long time. I’m perfectly aware (because I saw her CV a few years ago) that she has no scientific background. But you haven’t actually said how she decided which to include and which to reject?

        Why should anyone believe someone who effectively expects people to trust her. With absolutely nothing to show it.

        The woman was vegan for 20 years and binged on eggs and dairy at every possible occasion. She, like yourself, is a name-caller, yet she claims that vegans are immature and childish. Reading through your responses, it appears that you’re very immature and, just like Lierre, can’t bear people disagreeing with you.

        Thanks for your reply…Which I will not bother to read.

        Reply
        1. Tom Naughton Post author

          Well, that’s a shame, because I going to tell you what a fine and intelligent person you are.

          I was also going to tell you that I’m getting rid of all my light bulbs and throwing away my bifocals, since neither Thomas Edison or Ben Franklin had a formal “scientific background.” I’m also going to quit my high-paying job as a software programmer, since I’ve never attended a class in programming and don’t have a degree in programming. As you’ve correctly concluded, only people with official degrees are actually qualified.

          Reply
          1. Scott

            Did I conclude that? You must be hallucinating.

            I asked why I should believe Lierre rather than someone else?

            As for those examples: They provided EVIDENCE – Light bulbs and bifocals.

            I repeat my question: WHY SHOULD I BELIEVE YOU OR LIERRE KEITH?

            Reply
            1. Scott

              Come on. That’s a serious, genuine question.

              What do you and/or Lierre have that can give evidence to back up your claims?

            2. Tom Naughton Post author

              Here are some serious, genuine questions for you. Answer these, or piss off:

              1. Do you believe the attack on Keith was genuine or staged for publicity?

              2. If it was genuine, are you at all outraged? Do you believe it’s okay to attack someone for saying things you don’t agree with or find objectionable? Or do you believe in freedom of speech?

            3. Scott

              1. As far as I can see, they were real. I don’t think they were staged for publicity.

              2. No. I don’t think someone should be attacked for saying things that someone else disagrees with.

              But I don’t see any evidence at all that you or Lierre, or the Weston Price Foundation are a reliable, unbiased, emotionally-detached source of nutritional information. All three of you are very easy with the insults and slurs.

              Now I really am not going to return.

            4. Tom Naughton Post author

              You need to stop commenting. You don’t have any credentials that I’m aware of, so you’re not qualified to judge whether or not Keith is correct. And since I’m sure you don’t want to be intellectually inconsistent, you need to visit all sites where someone without a degree in medicine or nutrition is promoting veganism as healthy and insist they stop writing.

              Finally, you need to stop saying Keith’s book is biased, that I’m biased, or that the Weston Price Foundation is biased. Unlike me, you don’t have a degree in journalism, so you aren’t qualified to say which publication is or isn’t biased.

            5. Tom Naughton Post author

              Oh, no!! A vegan called me a laughing-stock! The wound is so deep! How will I ever recover from being called a laughing stock by a nut-job?!!

              Well, I guess I’ll just have to console myself with the sales of my DVDs, the many thousands of views of my speeches online, the half-million views of Fat Head on YouTube, the million-plus views on Netflix, and the constant stream of of emails from people telling me watching Fat Head changed their lives.

            6. Josh

              Do you bekieve that people shiukd be allowed to disagree with you without being called a ‘vegan nut-case’, or do yiu not kniw how to listen to others’ views calmly?

              Seriously, your reflex insults and accusations make you appear totally irratiinal. Insult me. Go in. Knock yourself out.

            7. Tom Naughton Post author

              As I explained, when people show up to make stupid arguments (Keith had it coming, the attack was no big deal, it was a publicity stunt, etc.), the rational response is to point out the stupidity. I learned a long time ago that it’s a waste of time to try logical arguments on illogical people. Zealots are impervious to logic. And people who can’t bring themselves to say attacking a woman for saying things they don’t want to hear is an outrage are nut-jobs. Zealots. True Believers. I call ’em as I see ’em.

            8. Tom Naughton Post author

              I didn’t offer my sales as proof, nut-job. I was laughing at idiots who think they’re going to wound my ego by calling me a laughingstock.

            9. Tom Naughton Post author

              By the way, do you think you’re fooling me by posting under different names? Your IP address is visible to me in the WordPress dashboard, genius.

            10. The Man

              “I guess I’ll just have to console myself with the sales of my DVDs, the many thousands of views of my speeches online, the half-million views of Fat Head on YouTube, the million-plus views on Netflix, and the constant stream of of emails from people telling me watching Fat Head changed their lives.”

              That sounds just like religious people.

            11. Tom Naughton Post author

              Excuse me for a moment while I react to a vegan zealot comparing me to religious people …

              HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA!!!!!

              Okay, thanks for the belly laugh.

              People who attempt to rationalize or dismiss a physical attack on a woman because … well, you know, she was dissing the one true faith! … they don’t sound anything like Islamofacists who think it’s okay to attack anyone who disses Islam, do they?

              Veganism is your religion, and you’re a religious fanatic. Nut-job. Zealot. True Believer.

            12. Tom Naughton Post author

              I don’t expect you to believe either of us, Mr. Religious Zealot. But as for providing EVIDENCE, she did. Her book has a notes section and a bibliography listing her sources. That’s how she backed up her claims. That’s also how I back up my claims. I cite my sources. I link to the studies. I analyze the data. This may come as a shock to you, but it’s possible to read and analyze studies without sitting in a classroom and spending a fortune to get a degree.

              Once again, here’s a long post I wrote for people like you.

              http://www.fathead-movie.com/index.php/2015/03/31/to-the-vegetarian-evangelists-updated/

              See those things in there called “links”? That’s me citing my sources.

              By the way, didn’t you promise to stop reading my replies?

            13. Josh

              You’re both a pair of unqualified nobodies. You prove no evidence but cherry-picked references from other unqualified nobodies. Your anger and frustration at not being seen as all-wise, all-knowing is evident from your quick resorting to insults and out downs. We don’t believe you. We’re Afatheadists. We’re Akeithits. We’re Apricists. We don’t believe in fairy tales with no evidence. You’re full of wishful-thinking fairy dust.

              ‘Lierre can pull a crowd’ so can Disneyland and that’s make believe too. You’re a bunch of frustrated wannabe experts.

              Insult me. Very intellectual.

              I’m going. Full of utter crap.

            14. Tom Naughton Post author

              I see. So when I write posts linking directly to studies published in scientific journals, those are references from unqualified nobodies. Okay, then.

              Vegans like you show up to here regularly to preach and try convert the infidels. I never go to vegan blogs to preach or argue. Do you SERIOUSLY believe it’s the vegans who don’t care what other people eat, and the meat-eaters who get all emotional about what other people eat? That’s beyond laughable. The fact that you all are here trying to convince everyone that Keith is a liar, doesn’t know what she’s talking about, etc. proves the point. I really and truly don’t care if you believe what I say in my posts. I really don’t care whether or not you’re persuaded by the evidence I present. If you’re happy and healthy as a vegan, go for it. But you all are clearly obsessed with convincing people that Keith got it wrong. You’re the angry and frustrated people in this equation, and anyone with a functioning brain who reads these exchanges can see that.

              Vegans are, of course, master cherry-pickers. Clinical studies (i.e., the ones that are valid)? Naaaw, we ignore those and cherry-pick worthless observational studies that tell us what we want to hear. Then we ignore observational studies that show the opposite.

            15. The Man

              Lierre Keith – The master of cherry-picking. Most of which aren’t even clinical studies.

              Look. You dismiss any disagreements because you have absolutely nothing to go on. Nothing.

            16. Tom Naughton Post author

              Okay, you convinced me. I hereby declare you correct on everything. Thank goodness you kept making the effort to show me the error of my ways. I finally understand that Keith doesn’t know what she’s talking about, and neither do I — and it’s all thanks to your intelligent and rational arguments.

              Give me a day or so, but I’m going to take down all my posts linking to studies that don’t support your vegan beliefs and write a long explanation to my readers of why I’m re-joining the Holy Church of the Plant-Based Diet.

              Again, I can’t thank you enough for your dogged efforts to show me the errors in my thinking. If only you’d shown up five years ago, I wouldn’t have wasted all this time promoting a paleo diet and believing the diet was working.

            17. The Man

              But you’re sort of right when it comes to one thing: Some vegans aren’t going to be convinced by your arguments. Not because they’re zealous or religious. It’s because they’re not idiots that fall for self-appointed, self-funded, self-published, etc. people who never submit their hypotheses to scientific scrutiny.

              I know it’s hard to hear but you’re just a self-appointed know-it-all.

            18. Tom Naughton Post author

              I appreciate you pointing that out. As I already mentioned in another reply, your logical and rational arguments have finally gotten through to me. I’m going to join the one true faith and become a vegan. Thank goodness you had the good sense to keep showing up here on a blog dedicated to low-carb/paleo eating and show us the errors in our thinking. You have done me and my thousands of readers a great service by your willingness to argue endlessly. We can’t thank you enough.

  42. Peter Wintrip

    I’ve been vegan since birth. I’m 15 years old and healthy. I emailed Lierre to tell her my story and she replied, “We both know that that’s not possible.”

    Reply
    1. Tom Naughton Post author

      Then I’d disagree with her on that. Name almost any diet, some people will do well and some people won’t.

      Reply
    1. Tom Naughton

      Run a search on this blog for posts titled “Letters from Viewers.” That will answer your question.

      Reply
      1. The Man

        But it doesn’t. I’m sure many people will attest to Allah, God, Jehovah, the Flying Spaghetti Monster. People attest to fraudulent faith healers, clairvoyants etc. It’s anecdotal. It does not answer the question.

        Reply
        1. Tom Naughton

          I see. So when people send me those before-and-after pictures, the pictures aren’t real. I take it, then, that when people attest to how going vegan improved their health, you also dismiss those stories as anecdotal, the equivalent of The Flying Spaghetti Monster.

          Why are you still here, nut-job? What do you think you’re accomplishing, exactly?

          Reply
          1. The Man

            Believing in something can sometimes cause the desired effect. It’s called a placebo. Did you not watch your own video on YouTube called “How to Make a 3 Minute Talk 15 Times Longer With Humour”? Or, as you calll it, “Science for Smart People”.

            You can’t prove that following your advice caused the effect in the photo. Observational study!

            Reply
          2. The Man

            And do you think people who look worse or no better are going to be as enthusiastic to send you photos? No. Of course not. It’s a biased study.

            No. You assume wrong about the attestations about “I feel better on a vegan diet.” things.

            You assume so much about people that post. You really do not show that you have an analytical mind.

            The video “Science for Smart People”, the majority of what you say is ‘filler’. No science. The science you do mention is very basic.

            Reply
    1. Tom Naughton Post author

      Run a search on this blog for posts titled “Letters from Viewers.” That will answer your question.

      Reply
      1. The Man

        But it doesn’t. I’m sure many people will attest to Allah, God, Jehovah, the Flying Spaghetti Monster. People attest to fraudulent faith healers, clairvoyants etc. It’s anecdotal. It does not answer the question.

        Reply
        1. Tom Naughton Post author

          I see. So when people send me those before-and-after pictures, the pictures aren’t real. I take it, then, that when people attest to how going vegan improved their health, you also dismiss those stories as anecdotal, the equivalent of The Flying Spaghetti Monster.

          Why are you still here, nut-job? What do you think you’re accomplishing, exactly?

          Reply
          1. The Man

            Believing in something can sometimes cause the desired effect. It’s called a placebo. Did you not watch your own video on YouTube called “How to Make a 3 Minute Talk 15 Times Longer With Humour”? Or, as you calll it, “Science for Smart People”.

            You can’t prove that following your advice caused the effect in the photo. Observational study!

            Reply
            1. Tom Naughton Post author

              I appreciate you educating me about the placebo effect. I had no idea that people who struggled on diet after diet and then finally lost weight by following my advice were merely responding to the power of suggestion. I mistakenly believed there was biochemistry involved.

              Again, thank you so much for sharing the gift of your rational and enlightened mind with us. Give it a day or so, and I’ll remove “Science For Smart People” from YouTube so as not to waste anyone’s time with humor. Also, would you mind telling me how to get in touch with you? Before I upload any more speeches or videos, I’d like to further benefit from your enlightened mind by having you point out what’s wrong with them.

          2. The Man

            And do you think people who look worse or no better are going to be as enthusiastic to send you photos? No. Of course not. It’s a biased study.

            No. You assume wrong about the attestations about “I feel better on a vegan diet.” things.

            You assume so much about people that post. You really do not show that you have an analytical mind.

            The video “Science for Smart People”, the majority of what you say is ‘filler’. No science. The science you do mention is very basic.

            Reply
            1. Tom Naughton Post author

              I cannot thank you enough for pointing out the errors in my assumptions. My goal now is to learn as much as I can from your rational and intelligent comments.

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