I usually make it a policy not to get involved in internet squabbles among bloggers, but I can’t resist this time – largely because one of the blogs is basically a front for a food company, and its owners are acting like adolescents jumping onto social media to slam their Very Worst Enemies from junior high school.  Not exactly what I’d call appropriate behavior for corporate executives.

If you read Jimmy Moore’s blog, you know he tested his glucose reaction to Julian Bakery’s low-carb (ahem) bread awhile back, and the results weren’t pretty.  The stuff spiked his glucose just like any other bread.  Others have reported the same result.  One angry customer even had the bread tested by an independent lab, which found that it contains way more carbohydrate and far less fiber than the company claimed.  The FDA also sent the company a warning letter about the claims on its label.  Jimmy reported that too.

Now, this is the point at which intelligent, mature executives would either keep mum and let the controversy pass, or perhaps announce that they’re working on fixing some errors in their process.  But the goofballs running Julian Bakery aren’t intelligent or mature, so they stooped to producing blog posts and YouTube videos “exposing” Jimmy Moore as a fraud … oh, and Diane Sanfilippo too.  I don’t know how or when she angered the adolescents running Julian Bakery, but they apparently felt the need to “expose” her too.

The blog posts and videos consist of the people who run Julian Bakery interviewing each other as experts … so it’s all roughly as believable as watching executives from Monsanto interviewing each other on the health benefits of semi-dwarf wheat.  That alone would merely be laughable, but then the same people claiming to be angry over accusations of fraud prove what honest and trustworthy people they are by engaging in fraud — this time using pictures.

The pictures appear in a post with the laughable title of Low Carb Blogger & Author Jimmy Moore Exposed As Fraud By Heath Squier.  (Heath Squealer – er, Squier — is one of the adolescents who run Julian Bakery.)  Let’s check some quotes – and no, I’m not going to link to this garbage.

This picture specifically outlines Jimmy in 2009, when he stopped eating our products, and now, it shows him in 2014, and this is a current picture at Paleo fx in 2014.

Uh, Mr. Squealer, how exactly does a picture “outline” Jimmy?  Is one picture of Jimmy surrounding another picture of Jimmy?

Okay, never mind.  Here’s what Mr. Squealer was referring to in his didn’t-excel-in-English style of communication:

Well, there you have it, ladies and gentlemen.  We see Jimmy in 2009, looking pretty good for a guy who once weighed more than 400 pounds and has battled obesity for his entire life. But then – and this is no doubt the crux of the problem – he stopped eating Julian Bakery products!  He went on some crazy ketogenic diet and (as the article informs us) got fat.  Man, if only he’d kept eating that Julian Bakery bread, he might still look as good as he did in 2009.

And we know that leaner-looking Jimmy picture is from 2009, because the Julian Bakery people said so, and they’re not the kind of people who would lie for the purpose of selling their products.  That’s why they’re so gosh-darned sick and tired (as they inform us in their videos) of being accused of dishonesty.  So I can only conclude that in addition to his other talents, Jimmy Moore is capable of time-travel.  I can’t believe he never told me.

Take a good look at the t-shirt Jimmy is wearing in the (ahem) 2009 photo.  Look familiar?  Here, maybe this will help:

Yup, the lean, mean, fightin’-machine Jimmy is wearing one of our Wheat Is Murder t-shirts.  We began producing those in June of 2011.  Judging by the background, that’s a photo from one of the low-carb cruises.  Can’t be the 2011 cruise, because the cruises are in May.  So the earliest possible cruise where he could have worn a Wheat Is Murder shirt was 2012 – but we all know darned good and well that’s not a 2012 photo, don’t we?  Jimmy weighed more than 300 pounds during the 2012 cruise.  He was getting advice or insults from every direction.

The advice that finally made a difference came from Dr. Jeff Volek, who explained to Jimmy how to adjust his diet to stay in ketosis — you know, the diet the adolescents running Julian Bakery want you to believe ruined that great physique Jimmy had back in 2009, when he was still eating Julian Bakery bread and hopping into his time machine to buy a t-shirt I first produced in 2011.

Since that “2009” picture couldn’t possibly be from the 2012 cruise, it was likely taken during the 2013 cruise – i.e., after Jimmy had been on a ketogenic diet for a year and lost 80 pounds, despite not eating Julian Bakery bread.

But what the heck, let’s take the mystery out of it.  Here’s a picture I know for certain was taken during the 2013 cruise, because I took it.

Darned if that physique doesn’t look just like the one Jimmy supposedly had back in 2009, when he was still eating Julian Bakery bread and buying t-shirts produced in the future.  The length of his hair looks identical too.  So I’m going to step out on a limb and say both of those pictures are of Jimmy after a year on his ketogenic diet.

Like I said above, I don’t know what exactly Diane Sanfilippo did to produce a temper-tantrum among the adolescent executive corps at Julian Bakery, but whatever it was, they responded by posting this picture from Paleo FX 2014 as proof she’s gotten fat – no doubt the result of failing to include Julian Bread in her diet.

I know a little bit about photography, so when I saw this picture, my guess was that the “fatter” Diane was result of bad lighting, not a “chunky” body.

Chunky?  Yup, the adolescents named the picture Diane Sanfilippo Chunky when they uploaded it.  Then one of them wrote this:

Of all the people I have searched for current photos belonging to the Paleo or health community, Diane was the most difficult to find any recent photos of. When I did find them, they were never full body and always a strange angle. It appears someone is working overtime to make sure that people don’t see, just like Jimmy and many other of her buddies, she has reverted back to her previous weight.

Hmmm … I found a different picture of Diane from the same event – with an angle I certainly wouldn’t call strange — and it only took me a few seconds.  Perhaps Mr. Squealer and his fellow executives are mystified by Google.  Or perhaps we should interpret that claim as:  Of all the people I searched desperately hoping to find a picture that made her look fat, Diane was the most difficult.

Anyway, here’s what I found:

Geez, what a fatty, huh?  I’m surprised she didn’t cite unspecified “security concerns” and back out of the event so no one could take her picture.

She looks exactly like she did when I met her on the 2013 cruise – which is to say, she’s built like an athlete, with too much muscle to ever be a skinny-Minnie, and she’s got great curves.  (I say that with Chareva’s blessing.  Unlike certain bakery executives, Chareva doesn’t have a fragile ego.)  Perhaps Diane ate some Julian Bakery bread after that first picture and quickly lost weight as a result, then posed for the second picture.

In addition to warning readers about how Jimmy and Diane got fat after refusing to eat Julian Bakery bread, Mr. Squealer posted pictures of his own weight loss – which, I presume, was mostly induced by eating Julian Bakery bread.  Take a look, and be sure to read the weight figures:

So that’s what a 33-pound weight loss looks like, eh?  Boy, that’s got to be discouraging news for any guy with a big ol’ beer belly.  He’d look at Mr. Squealer’s before-and-after pictures and think, “Geez, this guy loses 33 pounds and barely shrinks.  That means I need to lose at least 300 pounds – which sucks, because I only weigh 285.”

I went to high school with a guy who was thickly muscled and as cut as I’ve ever seen outside the body-building world.  And yet during a game of pickup basketball, I noticed that when he was winded, his belly relaxed and protruded a bit as he sucked in air.  His abs appeared to go soft for a moment.  Then he’d breathe out, the belly would shrink, and the abs looked chiseled again.  It never occurred to me to stick a scale under him to see if his weight was fluctuating by 33 pounds as he breathed, but I’m pretty sure that wasn’t the case.

I once managed to semi-starve myself into a 35-pound weight loss.  I was still a road comedian at the time, and when I walked into clubs where people on the staff hadn’t seen me in a year or so, the comments ranged from “Wow, you look like a totally different person!” to “Uh, pardon me for asking, but are you okay?  You’re not sick or anything, are you?”  I went from wearing either size 38 or 40 pants, depending on the style, to size 34 pants.

I don’t have any other pictures of what a 33-pound weight loss looks like, but here’s what a 50-pound weight loss looked like on Tom Hanks:

And here’s what a 60-pound weight loss looked like on Christian Bale when he starved himself for his role in The Machinist.

Bale lost 60 pounds and went from looking beefy to looking positively cadaverous.  Mr. Squealer claims he lost a bit more than half that much weight, but the main difference I see in his before-and-after pictures (besides the degree to which he’s contracting his abs) is the lighting.  I can only come up with three explanations:

  1. When you lose body fat, the first 33 pounds don’t make much of a difference in your physique.
  2. Mr. Squealer’s body produces a unique form of adipose tissue that is denser than lead.  (I believe eating Julian Bakery bread cures the condition, however.)
  3. Mr. Squealer is lying about his weight loss.

But it couldn’t be number three, because that would be dishonest — and it’s not as if the company has been busted for false claims or anything.  And it’s not as if the Julian Bread executives would stoop to grabbing a picture of Jimmy Moore from 2013 and claiming that’s what he looked like when he was eating their bread in 2009.

A couple more quotes from the blog before we go:

Talk about the absolute bipolar opposite of what we preach in the primal and paleo world, at least what I teach.

Um … what exactly does the “bipolar opposite” mean?  Is that an opposite that sometimes isn’t an opposite and sometimes is, depending on whether it’s feeling manic or depressed?

Again, look at the photos. I won’t say anything. Just go look at the proof, and go look at these people on the Internet and their photos. They’re overweight and their weight fluctuates big time. Not to mention a lot of their employees. If you and your book is so great, why are almost all the people who work for you overweight?

If you and your bread is so great, why isn’t you able to grasp the relatively simple concept of subject-verb agreement?  But more importantly, why doesn’t you act like grown-ups when your company’s product is criticized?  Is it because you is immature?

And here’s a quote from one of the YouTube videos:

Paleo FX and Ancestral Health Conference are a joke.

So the Julian Bakery people have these bread products they hope to sell to the low-carb and paleo communities, and these are the strategies they employ and the statements they make in public.  Brilliant.  I’m sure these posts and videos are doing wonders for their corporate image.

It’s always so much fun watching children pretend to be grown-ups.

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182 Responses to “The Julian Bread People And Their Half-Baked Claims”
  1. Becky says:

    Their behavior leaves as a bad a taste in the mouth as their bread does.

  2. scott says:

    Wow that is the kind of childish behavior you would expect from Durian Rider. Not someone trying to conduct a business.

    • Tom Naughton says:

      I predict if they continue this behavior, they won’t be in business for much longer. They are their own worst enemies.

  3. Chuck says:

    I always used this page to show people how it’s done (for selling products). These look like the same techniques Mr. Squealer used for his own before and after photos.

    http://mom.me/in-the-loop/10450-truth-behind-after-weight-loss-photos/

    • Tom Naughton says:

      Yup. As I was looking at Mr. Squealer’s before-and-after shots, I was thinking I could produce more dramatic results than that just by contracting my abs and changing the lighting a bit — which is probably what he did.

  4. Jonnelle says:

    Did they go to the CSPI School of Business? Maybe they got advice from John Banzaff.

  5. Bill H says:

    Right on, Tom. Thanks for calling BS! I saw the video because their tweet was “promoted”. Did they actually spend money to get eyes on their ridiculous video? After reading the FDA notice and hearing their flippant response, I definitely will avoid Julian Bakery products.

    • Tom Naughton says:

      All I can say is that some people seem to be missing a key part of the brain that warns them when they’re coming across like a-holes in public.

  6. NM says:

    Even were he not a mendacious crook, his belief that these attacks represent effective PR is bizarre. He’s not the freshest slice in the loaf, is he? Or “are he”, as he’d ask.

    • Tom Naughton says:

      Nope, not the sharpest tack in the drawer. He obviously doesn’t grasp how he’s coming across to other people. If he wants to save his company’s reputation, he should never write or speak in public again. Every time he does, he comes across as a either a jerk or an idiot.

  7. Remy Scott says:

    First off, I love what you do.

    Second, I have two questions regarding this post:

    Were you referring to the Christian Bale movie “The Machinist” (2004) and not “The Mechanic” (1972-Bronson/2011-not Bronson)?

    Also, you never mentioned where/when the 2014 picture of Mr. Moore was from …for which I will end this sentence with a question mark because I said I had, “TWO questions” and “not a question and a statement”?

    • Tom Naughton says:

      Ahh, yes, wrong movie title. Both good flicks, although The Machinist was kind of creepy. I believe that second picture of Jimmy is from AHS 2014.

      • Jean Bush says:

        I understand that Bale lost 60lbs for the Machinist role.

        Here’s his diet for that role:

        Christian’s diet for The Machinist was more than a little extreme: He subsisted on water, an apple, and one cup of coffee every day, ultimately dropping 65 pounds from his 6-foot frame. To make sure he stuck to the crazy strict regimen, he cut himself off socially. “In the end, I had to stop going out,” he explains. “I realized that wasn’t going to work. I’d do a bit of eating hardly anything and losing 51 pounds and then I’d put on 7 pounds bingeing one night because I’d have a couple of drinks. So I decided no more social life, no more friends, no more dinners, no more drinks.”

  8. Brigitte says:

    Here’s another photo from the 2013 Low Carb Cruise. Jimmy hired a pedicab for me and Christine and he ran alongside. Too bad he had so little energy since quitting julian bread!

    /Users/brigitte/Pictures/iPhoto Library/Originals/2013/Low Carb Cruise 2013/P5100211.JPG

  9. Bruce says:

    These attacks remind me of the campaign commercials playing on TV now. Especially the ones that attack the other candidate for having more money then the “good” candidate.

    I guess having more money then someone else, is against a law I didn’t know about.

  10. Thanks for writing this article, Tom. The Julian Bakery sludge throwing is really defamation of character against two highly-esteemed leaders in the paleo and ketogenic communities. Jimmy and Diane will suffer no damage to their reputations, but I expect that Julian Bakery will experience tremendous losses from which it may not recover. Proverbs 10:18 about sums it up, “whoever utters slander is a fool.”

    • Tom Naughton says:

      The more I thought about their tactics, the more they struck me as utter morons. They claim to be all angry and upset over being accused of fraud, but engage in photo fraud anyone with access to Google can refute. Then they attack low-carb and paleo leaders with huge followings in cyberspace. If they think this is going to help their sales, they are seriously delusional, or seriously stupid, or perhaps a bit of both.

  11. Jerry says:

    Best Fat Head takedown ever! Great job!

  12. Walter Bushell says:

    My guess is they are doing everything they can to hold onto business as long as they can.

    Or perhaps they are true believers and just cannot believe their product is junk.

  13. Cee says:

    Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I had not yet heard about this and because of your article, I will not be buying a Julian Bread product. I live in Florida and I haven’t really encountered (or maybe noticed ) them yet.

  14. Mary says:

    Diane got on their radar after sharing Jimmy’s link about Julian’s trouble with the FDA on her Facebook page (along with a few editorial comments about her concerns with the product from the beginning).

    • Tom Naughton says:

      And for that, they tried to fat-shame a woman who isn’t fat? These people are morons. It’s as if they don’t think anyone else can find a photo online.

  15. Laurie says:

    Even more reason for me not to buy their “bread”, like I needed another reason. I don’t like people that bash my friends. Deplorable & childish.

  16. Brent says:

    Been reading the blog since 2010 and never made a comment until now. That is just crazy how they would blatantly lie like that, glad you called them on that BS

  17. PJ (RightNOW) says:

    I’ve been a regular on a big lowcarb forum for about ten years now. Me and most people I know on the forum (and that is many, many people) tried their stuff and it didn’t operate any differently than any other pasta in the universe for us.

    I didn’t measure blood glucose in my case; I didn’t need to; I nearly passed out after a good sized serving of the stuff (despite high fats in the sauce) which is how I respond to wheat pasta, so I didn’t eat it again.

    Their attack on Jimmy and even on the ancestral conferences (way to expand the circle of enemies, dudes) simply because people honestly report the effect their products actually seem to have on human bodies is pretty ridiculous I agree.

    The somewhat larger issue is the original thing, of course: diabetics and others sensitive to carb response, eating their stuff because they believe the labeling/marketing claims, are likely being harmed by it.

    As a barely related note that might be useful to some, you can now buy (dunno if you can make at home?) ‘noodles’ (fettucine style or spaghetti style) made of nothing but black beans and water or mung beans and water. They’re resistant starch fiber and not much else (I’m doing pre/probiotics at the moment and they’re the perfect addition to my supps if I want to really know something is going on in there, if you get my drift), taste surprisingly decent as something to dump meat/sauce on (though nothing whatever like wheat, and the visual of the black is pretty unappealing be warned). If only someone would make a version not from china the world would be perfect on that front. In the meantime folks can read reviews of the stuff on amazon.com. A couple diff corps are marketing them but given the packaging I’m guessing it’s same source diff branding.

    Perhaps the key thing about the company’s behavior in attacking a couple other people isn’t merely that they had to lie about dates on pictures to make someone look fatter later merely because they had later quit eating their products. The thing is Tom, it wouldn’t matter if Jimmy *had* been fatter later. It wouldn’t matter if he were twice as fat. All the fatso finger pointing does is completely redirect this into being about Jimmy’s body instead of about their misleading product specs.

    If a person measures their blood glucose, the results are what they are. Would Jimmy being twice his size make his blood glucose meter lie?

  18. Heath Squier says:

    Wow are your facts off this document pretty much sums up what happened. Not to mention you completely left our all our products are lab tested as of 2009 and we post our results for our accurate products online. Rebuttal document: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ABdf5tn_uw1MQFLbW1kCduaLa0SJJ8NcJcSvXV_M7to

    • Tom Naughton says:

      Keep talking, Mr. Squealer. The more you write and speak in public, the worse you make it for yourself.

    • Stephen says:

      Geez, just eat real bread, made with whole grains. Why would anyone buy 2x priced “magical bread” that can’t compete with high-quality bread baked on site? (Local bakeries, Whole Foods, etc.) You know people can still lose weight and get extremely fit eating real bread, right?

      • Davida says:

        Not everyone is eating low carb, or avoiding grains in general, for weight loss. Some, like me, are doing it to keep blood sugars in check. I’m type two diabetic. High quality, local, fresh made bread is awesome…but it still raises my blood sugar. Some diabetics just deal with never eating grains again. Others look for substitutes, like the bread in question. I can’t eat it. It’s like eating cheap store bread, or fresh made whole grain bread, in terms of affect on my blood sugar…I might as well just eat a cookie.

      • Molly says:

        Uhhhhhh….no.

    • DJ says:

      I notice how you completely ignored the fact that the pictures you posted are complete lies and try to deflect with more “facts” about your product. Again, if your product is so damned good, then you shouldn’t have to make up lies about bloggers in a vain attempt to make your product look better. Until you address the lies you’ve tried to spread, anything else you say is irrelevant.

    • NM says:

      So, business 101 by Heath Squier: professional, confident companies don’t post short mea-culpas on their official website: they instead link to whiny ad-hominem screeds hosted by Google Docs.

      Just taking down notes..

      • Tom Naughton says:

        Yeah, all you business owners out there, be sure to follow The Squealer’s fine example of how to handle criticism of your company’s products. It’s clearly working for him.

    • Rul says:

      Heath, you are a liar, a coward, and a little b1tch!
      I hope you rot in hell for your crimes against the American public who are seeking healthier options.

      If you were on fire, I would drink turpentine and p1ss on you.

  19. Ally Bishop says:

    This is fabulous! I just had the privilege of interviewing Jimmy for our podcast, and he is the kindest guy out there. Why on earth these folks decided to come out swinging against him rather than inviting him into the conversation, I’ll never know. But your investigation into their claims shows just how bizarre they truly are. And dear god, how on earth do they think they are going to sell their products to the very audience they are repelling? Looking at the comments that they praise on their Twitter feed — fat-shaming, gossip, etc. — you have to wonder how they ever got as far as they have.

  20. Firebird7478 says:

    Enjoy:

  21. Gary Collins says:

    Your facts are so incorrect it is not funny. Neither Nicole or I (Gary Collins) work for Julian Bakery and we never have. We have our own separate companies, do your research first, but that is not really what you guys like to do unless it fits your agenda. And those are my quotes not Heath’s, and I stand by them 100%. I’m sure the bipolar wording was a transcription error, if not I misspoke, probably due to the anger most of you cause me with your horrible health information. The pics are the pics, you guys are arguing against visual evidence, pretty funny I think. If Jimmy’s original was from 2012 that even makes his weight gain worse, great rebuttal on your part. I have worse pics of Diane, and we decided to not publish them, as we felt we didn’t need to go that route. As far as fat shaming, stop your whining, part of being in the business of health means you need to show you are a bastion of health, and not a sloth. Because we know what we are doing and practice what we preach we are fat shaming, no it means we actually know what we are doing. Also I’m an expert in the area of health look at my background, and I’m not a blogger, am an author and I actually right my books. Nice donate button and affiliates on your page you guys are all the same. If it wasn’t for this horrible uninformed health crap you spew to make an attempt at a wage, back to the car wash you go. Why don’t one of you hacks come on our show and let’s have a real discussion, oh that is right you can’t run your mouth and spew incorrect facts one on one.

    • Tom Naughton says:

      “… I actually right my books.”

      Heh-heh-heh … does that mean you straighten them when they’ve fallen over? Or don’t you know the difference between “right” and “write” there, Mr. Author?

      You of course don’t recognize this for the same reason tone-deaf people don’t recognize when they’re off-key, but every time you write a paragraph, it’s so full of spelling and grammar errors, you end up looking like an idiot. My daughter has a far better command of the language than you do, and she’s only 10.

      As I’ve mentioned in reply to other comments, some people seem to be missing a part of the brain that warns them when they’re coming across as assholes in public. You and Mr. Squealer keep proving the point. So please, keep talking. Keep posting. The more you show up in public, the sooner you’ll ruin whatever reputation your company has left.

      • Tammy says:

        Thanks Tom. You said everything I wanted to say, and more. These guys are just embarrassing themselves. The more they talk, the worse it gets.

      • KO says:

        Mr. Collins must use the same transcriber to answer questions on Facebook posts. I just came across this one there: “Raw just means they are dehydrated at a low temp. You can eat them write out of the bag and all the enzymes and nutrients are still in place because they were dehydrated at a low temperature…”

    • Kim says:

      Yeah, you guys really do come across as being major league a-holes. Diane clearly is NOT fat. In fact I would label her body type as “ideal”. She’s strong and athletic, but still has enough body fat to be healthy and fertile which is what women are SUPPOSED to look like. Women are not supposed to look like Madonna, with no body fat and veins sticking out! I wish meat-heads would stop promoting the idea that if women just “eat the primal diet the RIGHT way” then they will be ripped with 10% body fat. Just because it works for you does not mean that a woman can – – or should – – get those same results. Diane IS a bastion of health. Shame on you for supposedly being a nutrition expert yet being so clueless about what ideal health looks like for women.

      Also, your writing is terrible. Geez Louise. What was that bit about “practice what you preach” again?

      • Tom Naughton says:

        According to Mr. Collins, his nearly-incomprehensible writing style is the result of typos. Those must be some hellacious typos.

    • Ham-Bone says:

      Attempt to make a wage…haha…I’m not sure Tom has turned a profit yet. I hope so but I’m pretty sure the programming pays a little more than the car wash. So, if he had a choice….

    • Ham-Bone says:

      Unless he was lying about this picture on May 19th, 2013 or doctored his blog to keep some kind of ruse going, I do believe Tom’s detective work was spot on. God bless Google images and butter.

      http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/jimmy-moores-n1-experiments-nutritional-ketosis-day-331-360/18365

    • Cheese Cake says:

      Wait, did you just say “Neither Nicole or I (Gary Collins) work for Julian Bakery and we never have.”
      Well that’s good to know that you two are unbiased, but isn’t Nicole a bit effeminate for a man?

      Oh? Nicole wasn’t in the discussion but is a later addition to the talk show.
      But then who is that other guy, the one in the black hat that says Paleo?

      Perhaps CEO Of Julian Bakery, Inc. Heath Squier as stated in the description?

      Now, I’m not a fancy big city lawyer, but it seems to me that that might the conflict of interest you were trying to dismiss.

      Bravo that’s some first class weaseling.

    • Elle says:

      “I have worse pics of Diane, and we decided to not publish them, as we felt we didn’t need to go that route.”

      Well, aren’t you a class act.

      “I’m not a blogger, am an author and I actually right my books.”

      I’m pretty sure that sentence just paid for your editor’s kid’s braces.

      • Tom Naughton says:

        Classiness aside, it’s a stupid argument. Lots of people responded around cyberspace by posting recent pictures of Diane in which she looks quite fit (no surprise there). So even if the dumbass could dig up more pictures with bad lighting or whatever that make her look “chunky,” we can be pretty certain she doesn’t magically de-chunk for some pictures but not for others. A camera can make you look fatter. It can’t make you look thinner.

        Unless, of course, she gains and loses 33 pounds every time she breathes in and out, like Mr. Squealer.

    • Bubbles says:

      “visual evidence”

      I do not thing you know what this phrase means. Two photos with dates pasted on them are not in any way “evidence”. Where are the dates of these photos documented by a reliable (not you) outside source?

      And “wah wah, no you’re wrong Tom, you’re a big dumb meaniehead” is not a rebuttal.

  22. Gary Collins says:

    Ok, so the fact I have a couple typos in between running a business, and helping people that is what you focus on. I didn’t have time re-read what I wrote to you, people get the point typos or not. Transcripts are not perfect and everyone knows that, that is why we have videos, so you can get the entire content in its true form.

    http://youtu.be/wsjbg3VL-KQ
    http://youtu.be/wkuWLu9wiYU

    Oh not to mention the fact you can see we are not overweight and have issues controlling stuffing our faces with donuts, or 5 sticks of butter or what ever you are preaching as the magical health cure of the week. I don’t sit at my computer all day hammering out stupid blogs. You are a true idiot, because you can’t argue against my facts. Instead you nit pick grammar, because you are dodging the truth and a real rebuttal to my facts. Oh, what happened to my invite to our show. Typical you are the same, just want attention to sell some more butter via affiliate links. I will donate to your blog, because it appears you need the help more than me.

    • Tom Naughton says:

      When you type “right” instead of “write,” that’s not a typo, Mr. Author. That’s a word choice made by someone who apparently didn’t do well in grade-school grammar classes.

      My entire post was arguing against your “facts,” Mr. Author — such as the “fact” that Jimmy Moore was looking pretty good in (according to your “facts”) a 2009 photo … while wearing a shirt first produced in 2011.

      You and Mr. Squealer are full of shit, and the more you appear in public, the more obvious that becomes. So like I said, please keep talking.

      • Jenny says:

        I am in tears right now. Gary and Heath are honestly the most foolish people I’ve ever had the displeasure of knowing about and I, for one, am having a great time watching their ship sinking.

        • Tom Naughton says:

          That’s what’s so stunning about this whole brouhaha. Every time they open their mouths or write another English-challenged comment or post, they make themselves look even worse — and yet they keep doing it.

          I’m reminded of the time a grade-school bully tried to ram the Older Brother with his head. The Older Brother happened to be standing in front of a wall, so he stepped aside, which caused the bully to crash his head into the wall. And then, amazingly, the bully lowered his head and tried to ram the Older Brother yet again. And again. Same result.

          Those of us watching were thinking, “Oh my lord, how stupid is this guy?”

          I’ve having the same thought as I watch Squealer and Collins show up in public and ram their heads into walls over and over. Perhaps some ingredient in Julian bread affects brain function.

      • Kim says:

        Stop trying to argue, Tom. We know the truth. You are making millions from talking people into buying butter! Every dairy farmer in the country is probably paying you a royalty. You must have a storage unit full of cash, a la Walter White in Breaking Bad!

        • Tom Naughton says:

          Yeah, it’s amazing how much money I make selling butter, considering my butter-selling links aren’t visible anywhere on the blog.

          • Elenor says:

            Of course, your butter-affiliate links can’t be seen by “normal” people — they’re special *invisible* links, visible only to (1) fat people who (2) love you. (Both conditions must be met!) Only people with those special powers are able to see your special affiliate links to butter. (Alas, the bacon links you make even more money with are still invisible to me, but I have high hopes!)

            • Tom Naughton says:

              Shhhh! I don’t want Mr. Collins to find out that I remove the butter-affiliate links whenever my spider-sense tells me he’s about to visit the blog.

              As for the bacon links, I’ll allow you to see those when I believe you’ve been properly worshipful.

      • Cheese Cake says:

        To be fair, he could be dyslexic like me. But even then he’s still being lazy. I re-read everything I type because I feel the short time it takes is worth it to be sure that what I want to say is conveyed correctly.

        • Tom Naughton says:

          Perhaps, but given how he kept coming back and making himself look even worse with each reply, I don’t think it’s dyslexia at work here. I think it’s good old fashioned stupidity at work here.

    • Jeanne says:

      You’re coming across like an illiterate fool, no matter what your intention is.

  23. Naz says:

    I find this whole thing so beyond ridiculous! Watching their video was like watching a train wreck, I wanted to look away but I couldn’t! What amused me the most was when they were discussing Diane’s book ‘Practical Paleo’ and saying how it was too complex, yet in the same video they were saying how other people in the paleo community don’t have “real” jobs or qualifications! Uhhhh ok then! So suddenly ‘Practical Paleo’ is TOO complex?!

    Anyway as far as I’m concerned they’ve dug a BIG hole for themselves and well KARMA!

  24. Tom Naughton says:

    Their videos are train wrecks and their posts are train wrecks. They’re coming across as utter jackasses in public, but they’re too dense to realize as much.

  25. Gary Collins says:

    Ok Mr. Comedian, just the health expert I want. Do you make jokes and I lose weight, you are a health dynamo Mr. Comedian. So your main point is Jimmy gained more weight in a shorter period of time. That is the worst argument and rebuttal I have ever heard. I’m going to dazzle you by pointing out someone’s failures on a shorter time scale. I see there is no argument about Jimmy looking the way he does in the 2014 photo, I guess that fact just isn’t important. By the way you guys talk real tough on the internet, next time you want to call me names do it to my face, shows what you are really all about. The invitation still stands to be on the show and get to the facts, we will even let you tell jokes if that is all you know how to do.

    • Tom Naughton says:

      Sure, Mr. Author, I’d just love to take time out of my busy schedule to bring my large and loyal following to a show run by people who keep proving themselves to be small-minded, dishonest, vindictive a-holes.

    • Jenny says:

      “the next time you want to call me names do it to my face” I literally used to say that in Jr. High when I was in a fight over AIM

      • Tom Naughton says:

        I refer to them as adolescents in my post, and Mr. Collins replies by acting like an adolescent. You can’t make this stuff up.

        • NM says:

          Something rang very familiar with the tone of these folks’ foot-shooting debacle. And then I remembered: I’ve often seen this level of bro-aggression and inability to realise when it’s becoming self-defeating in one particular population: those who abuse steroids. That would explain a number of things here.

      • Firebird7478 says:

        Just remember, winning an argument on the internet is like winning the Special Olympics. Yeah you won, but you’re still retarded. (Not referring to you…someone pointed that out to me when someone in a forum was really getting on my nerves…could say what he want without fear of reprisal…internet muscles)

  26. Stephen says:

    As they say, “Oh, snap!”. Nice post Tom! They really must be playing with half a deck to set themselves up for such a whipping. What a bunch of idiots. “Paleo Bread”. What did they expect? I can’t see how it wouldn’t get laffed out of the store. Morons.

    • Tom Naughton says:

      This is what amazes me. You’d think at some point, enough brain cells would get together and form a thought along the lines of “Wow, we’re really coming across as assholes in this whole dust-up. We’re permanently alienating thousands of low-carbers and paleo dieters. Maybe this isn’t such a good idea.”

      • Stephen says:

        I think Heath’s brain is thinking more along the lines of “This is just the start. These private label products are the greatest! I don’t need a bakery, or any baking experience, or even a recipe. I just provide a logo, and pay for the production run. It’s not cheap, but I can charge an unheard-of markup because of my magical claims …”

  27. PJ (RightNOW) says:

    Who cares what size anybody is. That argument is clearly an attempt to completely divert the public away from the fact that the product being sold does not have the effect on most people that is its only reason for sale.

    At least, according to an enormous number of people, regardless of whatever measure the company is using to back their marketing. And this is without regard to whether the people saying this are lean or large, skinny diabetics or obese people on a diet.

    Blood glucose meters are not prejudiced in that regard.

    The rest is just juvenile insult. That’s sure to make their company look better… to their primary customer base which is about 75% made up of the very people they’re insulting.

    • Heath Squier says:

      PJ you clearly didn’t get the real facts that all our products are lab tested. We post these online and have since 2009!
      FDA Rebuttal Link: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VDMVEnopd2_0Boz-TS8hVPAKjs1yVHL1krwlp1-c984/edit

      • ChrisH says:

        Long before any of this started I tasted that crap you call bread, that alone was enough to clue me in on the fraud that is your company. I’d rather eat cardboard. Seriously.

        • Tom Naughton says:

          But if you eat cardboard, you won’t be able to lose 33 pounds by tensing your abs and changing the angle of the lighting.

      • PJ (RightNOW) says:

        Yes, I saw the reference to lab testing Heath. Such things can be structured to get any answer you want, like much of the rest of science. However I had no reason to question Julian Bakery’s claims initially… until both my and a ridiculous number of other peoples’ blood sugar results after eating the stuff told the story.

        If you guys managed to find people or a protocol to make the numbers look good on paper, that’s lovely… but it doesn’t seem to work in the real world.

        That real world has people who can use blood glucose meters, like Jimmy posted, to measure the actual result. No amount of mudslinging at his weight past or present touches what the meter reads as fact (or has anything whatever to do with your product, though it’s a lovely sideline into personal insult for distraction). He is not the only person to have those results, simply the most high-profile person to go on about it.

        You are probably a well intentioned guy on good days but clearly the battering JB is taking publicly is affecting you emotionally, and you might want to consider having someone (even a secretary) vet your stuff before you post it for a sanity-check. Many of your posts and comments around the web are offensive even to people who would otherwise have no reason to hold any opinion, and are surely making matters worse.

        Peace,
        PJ

      • Bubbles says:

        I read both of your lab reports and found this choice morsel of a footnote:

        “This test is not considered in-scope of our current A2LA accreditation.”

        On the tests for Carbohydrate.

        For a supposedly low/no-carbohydrate bread.

        k.

    • B35 says:

      Insulting your own consumer base is (to use an old expression) biting the hand that feeds you. Accusing Jimmy of getting fatter because he didn’t eat his bread is bringing nothing but trouble to your community of customers. You will also that they have done nothing to refute the independent lab testing.

  28. Gary Collins says:

    Tom, you have now called me a jackass and an asshole. I have never called you a derogatory name. As a veteran and former law enforcement officer who put his life on the line to protect the crap that comes out of your mouth, I find it very offensive. What are you now going to make fun of my sacrifices and my serving my country funny man. But it shows your true colors of the type of person you really are. Needless to say, you are afraid of a real conversation and limit your scope of thought to your home turf. I will definitely be looking out for you and your brethren at conferences, let us just see how you act and talk face to face. I guarantee it will go much differently if you call me a name like that to my face. But then again you will probably run back to your room and do it on your computer. If your audience is so massive and has so much influence, why would be afraid to air it on our forum. Hmmmm doesn’t sound right to me, but I’m just an asshole according to you.

    • Tom Naughton says:

      Oh my goodness, Gary, I’m starting to get jealous. I spent years working as a standup comedian, and yet here you’ve got thousands of people laughing at you when you’re not even trying to be funny.

      So pointing out the photo fraud, the bizarre attempt at fat-shaming, the piss-poor writing ability, etc., somehow adds up to making fun of your military service, does it? Holy crap, that’s hilarious. You should take that act on the road.

      If by “looking out for you and your brethren,” you’re implying some kind of physical threat because I dared to respond to your bizarre videos and posts and point out the nonsense in them, well, that doesn’t surprise me one bit. That’s exactly how I’d expect an adolescent to respond. A sitcom writer could hardly do better than you. It’s like something from a Disney show with a laugh-track:

      “You’re immature. Grow up and act like an adult.”

      “Stop calling me immature or I’m going to kick your ass!”

      So here’s some free advice, Gary: when someone calls you an adolescent, or a jerk, or an asshole, or a dumbass, or a fraud, or whatever, it’s not a good idea to prove him right with your next response.

      And by the way, if you really took all that sacrificing you endured to protect my freedom of speech seriously, you wouldn’t respond to criticism with a threat, now would you?

      Please, keep writing and talking, Gary. I’m amazed at your inability to recognize that every time you reply, you look more and more like a complete ass. But it’s amusing as all hell, so don’t deprive us.

      • Obadyah says:

        Well said.

      • Elenor says:

        “As a veteran and former law enforcement officer who put his life on the line to protect the crap that comes out of your mouth, I find it very offensive. What are you now going to make fun of my sacrifices and my serving my country funny man.”

        As a veteran, *I* am offended at you trying to wrap yourself in ‘service to our country’ as a motive for making threats — to ANY American!! I’d suggest you take a time-out where you can regain your balance and — if you MUST continue the “conversation” (not that it is one) — do so as what I assume was your adult self when you were protecting this country! You are NOT providing a very good example of a military man, and I’m dismayed by that. You’ve held yourself up as a military man? ACT like one — no matter the provocation you perceive!

        • Tom Naughton says:

          As a civilian, I’m not allowed to salute you for that spoken-like-an-officer observation, but I am clapping and saying “Bravo!”

    • Stephen says:

      Remember this scene from Boogie Nights? (John C. Reilly and Mark Wahlberg):
      http://www.hark.com/clips/srlmghmfgw-we-look-like-assholes-right-now-man

      • Tom Naughton says:

        Great clip from a great flick. The characters were idiots, but still intelligent enough to realize when their behavior makes them look like assholes.

        Now, if they’d been eating Julian bread … who knows?

    • cave horse says:

      So instead of responding to the facts, you bloviate about yourself in an attempt to shame people and shut them up. That’s certainly conduct becoming of a man. But what else should we expect from a “law enforcement officer” instead of a peace officer?

      • Tom Naughton says:

        I checked with my nephew, who was engaged in actual warfare in Iraq and saw some buddies killed. He assured me I can criticize Mr. Collins without disrespecting the military or the people who serve in it.

        • NM says:

          And do you know what? If you DID wish to “disrespect” the military, that’s your prerogative in a free society as well! I’m sure they can handle a bit of dissing, what with their guns and tanks and all!

          Some people really don’t grok this “freedom” thing, do they?

          • Tom Naughton says:

            Nope. And some people apparently don’t have the brains to recognize that it’s probably not a good idea to pound your chest over how you put your life on the line to protect everyone’s freedom of speech, then imply that you’re going to harm someone for engaging in that freedom of speech.

    • desertwarrior says:

      **goes to Amazon,takes Primal Power Method out of cart**

    • B35 says:

      As far as fat shaming, stop your whining, part of being in the business of health means you need to show you are a bastion of health, and not a sloth. Because we know what we are doing and practice what we preach we are fat shaming, no it means we actually know what we are doing.

      This is what you said in your first comment.

    • B35 says:

      This is what you said in your first comment

      Nice donate button and affiliates on your page you guys are all the same. If it wasn’t for this horrible uninformed health crap you spew to make an attempt at a wage, back to the car wash you go. Why don’t one of you hacks come on our show and let’s have a real discussion, oh that is right you can’t run your mouth and spew incorrect facts one on one.

    • Firebird7478 says:

      Terrific, a cop who thinks we should thank him for doing the job he chose to pursue. Respect doesn’t automatically come with the badge. And I’ve yet to see a cop prevent crime, just show up afterwards with a clip board, unless you consider pulling someone over for doing 60 in a 55 MPH zone crime prevention.

    • Brian says:

      Someone please call Mr. Collins a Whaaaambulance. Suck it up buttercup. Just because you served and were a cop, does that give you carte blanche to be a dick? Now you’re threatening with violence? Wow, you really are an asshole.

    • ChrisH says:

      Wait, so we shouldn’t take health advice from a comedian but we should take health advice from a blow hard ex law enforcement officer who is reinforcing the conversation we are having nationally about LE and their attitudes and penchant for violence? Ummm, ok.

      • Tom Naughton says:

        “I’m a former cop, so I believe in the law, and I put my life on the line to protect your freedom of speech. So if you don’t stop insulting me online in response to me insulting people online, I’ll find you someday at a conference and hurt you. If you’re going to insult me, be a man and tell me to my face.”

        Riiiight. Because Collins and The Squealer would never, ever be so unmanly as to insult someone from behind a computer. If they wanted to call Diane Sanfilippo “chunky,” Collins and Squealer would have the courage and the decency to say it to her face — like real men. Unbelievable.

        Like I said, some people are missing that part of the brain that warns them when they’re coming across like assholes in public.

    • PJ (RightNOW) says:

      Er. Why on earth would he have any desire to go to your forum? He doesn’t even eat your products and he doesn’t respect the company or people after the behavior shown, so that would just be weird.

      Gary, this began with the posts about a business issue. JB claims certain things about its products which, in testing on real humans in the real world, do not seem to show corroborating results. Or, in short, what the label says is not what the product does. That is only a business issue.

      It is not unusual for consumers who encounter this sort of thing, especially if it (such as in this case) is very disappointing and even dangerous, to gripe about it on blogs, as Jimmy did. But on your side, still, it should be a business issue.

      The response from folks on your side was an internet PR insult-fest against two individuals well known and liked in a few fields, snipe against the whole ancestral conference, and various other sniping insults denigrating fat people. You guys made it personal, made it insulting and vituperous. It was not a professional response.

      I agree it is a difficult situation for any business to be in, but there are probably a few different ways JB personnel-fans could have responded to focus on some damage control. The ways chosen have poorly represented your business and/or products, unfortunately.

      Perhaps Heath is merely a fan in which case perhaps you can kindly ask him to “stop helping” you. (!)

      Tom responded to the personal element, and moreso to the twisted-misleading element of photo dates used solely for the purposes of coming up with a personal public insult toward people. It is questionable whether any name calling or mocking is worthwhile I have to agree — on anyone’s part. But if you start that kind of fire, it tends to burn back. The actions from JB’s side have sparked it as “defense” of individuals. It’s a bummer if much of the fallout you are dealing with is due to issues begun or inflamed by others “on JB’s behalf”, not yourself, I know.

      Still, whatever your situation: for you, it should be a business issue. Not personal. Yes, the internet makes people freer with humor at others’ expense (and worse). But no, showing up at a conference to beat up a comedian who mocked you is probably not the answer. (And if it were, announcing it publicly as a threat is probably not the best strategy either, but you know that, likely better than I given your background.)

      (Besides, doing so would merely make you the bruised entertainment at the bottom of a large pile of all those crossfit folks sick of sitting around listening to lectures. They’re all crazy, you know. :-))

      I’ve frequented and run web forums since 1996 or so. When someone attacks me, the more rabid they are the easier it is to be cordial and reasonable and they look like a fool by their own hand. Since this kind of response would reflect so much better on your business, as well as yourself, it is a strategy you might consider.

  29. sapphirepaw says:

    Guess what I found. That picture of Jimmy is right here: http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/jimmy-moores-n1-experiments-nutritional-ketosis-day-331-360/18365

    Yes indeed, it’s an “AFTER 12 months of NK” picture included with his final experiment update in May 2013.

    • Earl says:

      Surprising how many times Moore has gone full circle.

      • PJ (RightNOW) says:

        Yeah, like many people, Jimmy has been an ongoing self-experiment. Something works, then it doesn’t anymore (the body changes, or the body has underlying less obvious issues, and so on). Sometimes it works, but only to a certain degree. Nearly everyone I know with a serious (not minor) health issue has gone full circle and often many times. Each time there is usually a lot learned. Nutrition science, especially for the seriously obese, is still pretty young.

  30. Valerie says:

    Heath — you keep referring to the same thing over and over …the fact that your product is lab tested. That’s great! I think the uproar is how you treated people. I believe you keep digging yourself into a larger hole by responding the way you are. I haven’t seen many comments on here, other FB posts and/or IG that refer to your labeling (though I know that’s how it all started) — more has to do with your “fat shaming” and comparing before and afters. Low blow and really immature. And yet, you keep defending those statements by responding the way you do. You have lost a lot of business. I used your wraps, cereal and pizza dough ….and I promoted you on IG. A mere apology and recant on your personal attacks would have led me to continue on with your products. I now have no desire to support such a person/business. But like Tom says, keep talking. You’re doing more harm to yourself than good.

    • Tom Naughton says:

      Just a quick copy-and-paste of some reactions to their tactics I’ve seen on Facebook:

      Wow, talk about watching self-destruction in the making! It’s like they keep shooting themselves in the foot and blame their target, not their aim.

      I’d never even heard of this company before but will now make a point of steering clear of their products.

      I’m a raging hot ball of anger! I would (and will) forever boycott the f$&kwads of Julian Bakery.

      If you’ve seen any of the childish rants by the Julian Bakery, read this.

      Yet another reason to stay FAR away from Julian Bakery!!

      One of the most disgusting displays of immaturity ever to grace my computer screen. These two bozos from Julian Bakery (and who even knows what their names are) should be ashamed of themselves and their behavior. Please share this post.

      Like I’ve mentioned several times, I’m stunned that they don’t grasp what they’re doing to themselves and whatever is left of their reputations with those bizarre videos and posts, not to mention their replies here and elsewhere. Can you imagine, say, the president of McDonald’s engaging in nasty personal attacks all over the internet and somehow thinking that behavior will do anything other than ruin the company’s reputation and cost it a lot of customers?

      I guess when they’re done educating us all about paleo health, Collins and Squealer will teach a class on public relations at Harvard Business School.

    • Firebird7478 says:

      Motor oil is lab tested, too. 😉

  31. Tre says:

    As always, Great article!!!

  32. tony says:

    I should short Julian Bakery stock and make a killing!

    • Tom Naughton says:

      Hey, now that you mention it, perhaps what I considered idiotic behavior is actually genius. Maybe they’re planning to buy up all their own stock and want the price to plummet for awhile, kind of like what Paul Newman’s character was attempting in “The Hudsucker Proxy.”

      I’m not sure they’ll ever get their sales back up, though. Here’s a comment from the Yelp review site (on which Julian Bakery averaged 2/5 stars even before their latest tactics):

      I’ve purchased products regularly over the years from Julian Bakery, that were hit or miss. I have terminated my customer relationship with this company because of the video on You Tube the owner Heath Squier posted in response to some concerns raised by Diane Sanfillipo that the bread is not ideal for a nutrient dense diet. Mr. Squier responded by scouring the internet for age progression and video still photos that were an attempt to shame her for being overweight (she isn’t) and undermine her professional credibility. I don’t buy from companies that fat shame. The Paleo movement is about striving for radiant health, not achieving a specific weight or body composition.

      That review was written three days before my post. So if they’re not “Hudsucker”-style geniuses pretending to be idiots, then they certainly are idiots indeed.

      • Stephen says:

        There’s no way this tiny business is a publicly traded corporation. I’m guessing it’s run by Heath and has a few employees. They farm out the baking, bagging, and labeling to some 3rd party (aka “private label” production). I’ll guess they bake weekly or less, and freeze the inventory. They probably thaw some for the tiny retail outlet, and ship loaves frozen to end customers via UPS. I’ll guess that some loaves arrive worst the wear at the customer’s door.

        I’ll probably ride my bike over to their retail store, check it out, and blog about it. Again, I eat a loaf of bread in one sitting, and I’m used to high-quality, fresh-baked NY Rye @ $4/loaf (Whole Foods or Bread & Cie). I’ll write an honest review.

  33. AJ says:

    Looks like Tom is pissing off “Special Agent” Collins.
    I’m really think these guys are unstable
    Their behavior really brings this to mind
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLKR9tCiwvA

  34. Amy says:

    I just cannot believe those men. Just wow. Thank you for this post, Tom.

  35. lbd says:

    My local organic/natural foods store sells this bread. The owners are kind and ethical. I’m going to copy this article and send it to them and encourage them to not support this business. Man, if they had just kept quiet or just simply posted a fact-based rebuttal about their bread, it would have had no effect on their business. smh

    • Tom Naughton says:

      Considering they can’t seem to type more than one sentence without coming across as semi-literate jackasses, keeping quiet would have been the smart choice.

  36. Justin says:

    I’m not finding a source for that photo labeled “Paleofx 2014”, but I do remember watching this video from the 2014 Low Carb Cruise, which was around April or May this year. Paleofx was mid-April, so roughly the same time-frame.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yI4FM7u0R_c

    From what I can tell, he doesn’t look much different than he did in 2013, and I met him in person last November.

    • Tom Naughton says:

      Once you’ve been very fat, your body wants to go back there. A person who once weighed 400 pounds and then shrinks to 230 is not metabolically the same as someone who peaks at 230. Jimmy’s body will always be fighting him to a degree, trying to get fatter again. So all these internet cowboys who are basically saying Jimmy can’t possibly know what he’s talking about because he’s not built like a male model are, frankly, complete idiots. There are plenty of naturally lean people out there who don’t know diddly about weight loss.

      • Ham-Bone says:

        I rarely trust nutrition advice from people who have never been overweight. I want advice from people who did the research, put in the work, and battle everyday. Those are the people who will continue to seek out answers and try new things!

        • Tom Naughton says:

          I had that thought when I was looking at The Squealer’s “before” picture: Dude, if that’s what you looked like when you needed to lose (ahem) 33 pounds, you don’t have a flippin’ clue what it feels like to be fat.

  37. Joseph Shaughnessy says:

    To quote one of my favorite posters”

    “Don’t try to win over the Haters. You’re not the Jackass Whisperer”

  38. Todd says:

    Submitted yelp review with a link to this great post. Looks like a lot of others have done so as well. The fake 5 star reviews there are funny. ‘I don’t know why there are all of these bad reviews….’ LOL

    Suggest others add their reviews to google, yelp, etc. although I guess the word is out.

    • Tom Naughton says:

      Fake comments and reviews appear to be part of their modus operandi. Here’s a (ahem) comment from one of their videos:

      Bravo. Its about time the truth was acknowledged. Time to get myself some Julian Bakery Bread.

      Boy, isn’t it just lovely when people spontaneously show up on your channel and write comments that sound like ad copy? (Of course, a professional ad copywriter would know the difference between its and it’s. I suspect Mr. “I right my own books” doesn’t, however.)

      Anyway, if that’s a genuine, unsolicited comment, I’ll eat my steel-toed boots. I guess Collins and Squealer, being dumbasses themselves, assume other people are equally stupid and can’t spot a shill.

  39. Chuck says:

    I have never heard of Julian Bakery until now, but from what I have been seeing it looks like two guys decided to jump on the low-carb/paleo train and try to cash in. They didn’t seem to realize that most of the low-carb/paleo community are not like the sheeple that follow the crowd because it’s the popular thing to do. We have been awakened to the truth and taken time to do the research to educate ourselves. Low-carb/paleo may be picking up steam, but in my neck of the woods it’s far from being popular (they actually think I’m nuts, but are baffled by my results). If these two goofs were real business men they could have made a simple statement such as: It has come to our attention that people are getting results that differ from what our lab results show. We are looking into it to see what needs to be done. Even if they didn’t do anything about it, most people probably would have forgotten all about it. They probably still would have lost a little business, but not as badly as they will due to their way of handling it.

  40. NRC says:

    Wow. I stumbled across this gem of a brouhaha and it got me through lunch. Thank you! I have nothing else to add other than that Gary reminds me of Keanu Reeves in Point Break (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPcIiDfj8yc). That is all.

    • Tom Naughton says:

      I wasn’t familiar with Mr. Collins before all this. Having seen him in action, I’m now picturing him as the dumb-jock/bully-adolescent we all had the displeasure of knowing in junior high school. (The difference being that the rest of us have matured since leaving junior high.)

  41. bill says:

    Tom
    I dont usually comment but this is on YouTube………………

    http://youtube/IdDfF4hXfj4. It explains the technical merits of Julian Bread. I think the constant referral to ‘lab testing’ is perhaps a logical fallacy along the lines of the ‘higher authority’ gambit. Statins were ‘lab tested’and look where thats taking us.

  42. Boundless says:

    As I said in “Warning: Gluten-Free” at:
    http://wheatfreeforum.com/index.php/topic,350.0.html
    “…
    The formulators and marketers of “GLUTEN FREE!!” products, loaded with junk carbs (and often other unwise ingredients) either have no idea what they are doing (fooling themselves) or they know exactly (fooling us). …”

    I’m not sure which is more disturbing.
    I’m not sure it matters.

    It’s fascinating to actually witness GF industry ‘minds’ at work.

  43. Pierson says:

    Isn’t this mostly about Jimmy’s continued endorsement of a diet which has long since stopped working for him, and that may not actually be that healthy in the long-term? That might explain why there was some talk that this is allegedly this is something of a diversion on Jimmy’s part, based on what I’ve read. Squealer and carbsane aside though, even Richard Nickoley recently mentioned Jimmy’s condition, while Chris Kresser caught some flack for mentioning some potential warnings about a low-carb diet. Is there something I’m missing?

    • Tom Naughton says:

      What makes you think it’s stopped working for him? Given that he once weighed 400 pounds and his body will always be fighting to regain the weight, what do you expect? That he’ll get to 220 and stay there? How many people who weighed 400 pounds have done that?

      • Pierson says:

        If I recall correctly, hadn’t Jimmy successfully kept his weight down (and his blood sugars, lipids, hormones, etc. optimal) for a few years (back around ’05-’06, I think) when he was doing daily cardio, and following a high-protein, moderate fat, moderate carb diet? Barring that, though, even ignoring the frequent regaining and blood lipids, might the pre-diabetic blood sugars, hormonal deficiencies, and micronutrient deficiencies while on this diet be a problem? Moreover, since it’s already been established that chronic ketosis is about as natural as chronic veganism, isn’t it fair to assert that its long-term health effects aren’t known, and it might be a touch premature to declare it a long-term cure-all? This isn’t at all a knock against Jimmy, as Squealer is a tool, Carbsane is, uh…Carbsane, and he’s done a lot for folks in the health and fitness world. If what she says is true (and coherent enough), however, then perhaps it shouldn’t be ignored? Moreover, when other folks within the network begin to mention this, however, then I’d assert that it bears looking into. Either way, I don’t know all the facts, so I’m just trying to be as accurate as possible. No information is ever complete, after all, so I just figured I’d ask someone much closer than I could ever realistically hope to be

        • Tom Naughton says:

          Using the program you described, Jimmy slowly drifted back to over 300 pounds. Keep in mind he tried all kinds of protocols during that long period of creeping weight gain, including adding some safe starches back into his diet. I asked him about that awhile back, and he said the safe starches just made things worse.

          I agree that chronic ketosis is not the natural human metabolic condition. That’s why I don’t aim for ketosis with my diet. But if some combination of genetics and metabolic damage has given you a metabolic set-point in the “morbidly obese” range, what was or wasn’t the metabolic state of your paleolithic ancestors is no longer relevant. You have to find something that works — and “works” in this case means whatever best helps your body offset the biochemistry that tries to return shrunken fat cells to their previous size. To declare that Jimmy can only label his diet a success if it allows him to spend the rest of his life at just over 50% of his peak weight is an unfair standard. That simply may not be possible, short of starvation that would endanger his health.

          In GCBC, Taubes described a strain of obese rats who can literally be starved to death, but will still be very fat when they die. There is simply no diet that will allow them to become lean. When I interviewed Dr. Robert Lustig, he told me about a group of metabolically deranged adolescents who were put in a metabolic ward where their calorie intake could be strictly controlled. They were only given 500 calories per day — and they still got fatter. That’s how strong the hormonal drive to accumulate fat was in their bodies.

          The point is, Jimmy may be dealing with a biological drive to gain body fat that is extremely difficult to control. It isn’t fair to judge him by the standards we’d apply to someone who merely (so to speak) needs to lose 50 pounds and keep it off.

          • Pierson says:

            Regarding the weight issue, that’s fair enough. I think we all know that there’s more to health than weight and body fat, and that how calories are processed has as much (if not more) to do with fat gain, than quantity alone. As such, I’m really just focusing more on the other health markers (lipids, sugars, gut flora, and hormones, mostly), and how much they seem to have not improved (at least for long) on his diet. It’d be one thing if these markers were stellar (or even average), as the weight re-gain could at least be rightfully attributed to the stress of a major writing project (no easy feat, I know), and not necessarily a fault of the diet. Given that even that benefit has seemed to have waned, however, it seems only fair that his continued endorsement of it will begin to raise some concerns (I had read that he’s close to being over 300lbs again, although I have my doubts; is this true?). Again, while this isn’t a knock against anyone or the movement itself, the main point of contention is that such issues really do give detractors–particularly the more vocal and aggressive folks–some real ammo.

            All-in-all, as far as I know, allegedly Squire & co. claimed that this whole fiasco was started by Jimmy & friends in order to distract from his weight gain and other health issues. This intention seems not to be the case, though, as Squealer really does seem to be taking liberties with his ‘weight issues’ (even if unintentionally), and his product is absolutely defective. When other folks within the network begin to voice concerns, however, then isn’t there really something worth looking into here? It’s all too easy to get sucked into sensationalism, so I’m really more interested in questions and answers than judgment and gossip. As such, it seems only time will tell. Either way, thanks for the helpful info and insight

            • Tom Naughton says:

              Squealer and Collins have demonstrated several times that they’re habitual liars, so I doubt anyone is buying that line. If their excuse now is that Jimmy was trying to create a distraction, that hardly explains their crappy behavior or obvious lies. I’m surprised they didn’t try “The devil made me do it!”

              And what the hell is their excuse for trying to trash Diane Sanfilippo?

              Unless Jimmy has gained a helluva lot of weight since his visit here in July, he doesn’t weigh anything close to 300 pounds. The last set of lab markers I’m aware of him having looked pretty good overall. The LDL is high, but some people have genetically high LDL.

              It’s funny how every internet cowboy out there knows what the proper diet is for Jimmy. Every internet cowboy knows how Jimmy could lose weight. Every internet cowboy knows how Jimmy could improve his labs. Every internet cowboy knows that if Jimmy just did it this way or that way, he’d weigh 210 pounds for the rest of his life, his cholesterol would plummet, he’d have the hormones of an 18-yaer-old Zulu warrior, and his shoe size would shrink. Apparently the only person who can’t figure out the Super-Special Perfect Diet To Save Jimmy Moore is Jimmy himself.

              Of course, if Jimmy tried that Super-Special Perfect Diet to Save Jimmy Moore and it caused him to gain 50 pounds because of the higher carb content, the same cowboys would jump all over him yet again.

              With all the experimenting he’s done, all the weight he’s lost and regained and lost again, all the tracking he’s done of his glucose and other markers, all the experts he’s consulted and followed, etc., I think it may be time for the cowboys to consider the possibility that Jimmy actually knows what’s best for Jimmy, and that given his genetic history and his former status as a 400-pounder, there’s no diet he can adopt that’s going to produce numbers that will satisfy the cowboys.

              • gallier2 says:

                I haven’t looked at Jimmy’s lab values but high LDL is an effect of the Friedenwald eqution used to calculate the value. LDL is generally not measured but only derived from the total cholesterole, triglyceride and HDL. What most labs don’t know or have forgotten is that the formula is an approximation that was established from a sample of several hundreds New Yorkers used as the “normal” basis. Furthermore, the formula itself could was only accurate for a triglyceride level between 100mg/l and 400mg/l. If trigs are outside this range, the formula is inacurrate. Low carbers have generally trig significantly below 100mg/l, therefore their LDL values are not accurate.

                • Tom Naughton says:

                  Good point. If you really want to know what’s happening with your LDL, including particle size, you should get an NMR lipoprofile.

          • Lissa says:

            1. I just spent the better part of a Sunday afternoon reading most of these comments, and I am left shaking my head at the utter lack of common sense displayed by the Julian sycophants here. At this point, even if Julian bread were absolutely delicious, and completely carb free with the bonus of actually causing weight loss when consumed, and was given to me for free, I still wouldn’t eat it, simply because of the behavior of its proponents.

            2. I want to hug this particular comment, Tom. I think this finally explains me, and my epic struggle to lose weight. But then, it leaves me with the feeling that there really isn’t much hope, and I am consigned to my fate of being obese for the rest of my life.

            • Tom Naughton says:

              I understand the frustration. I think the best some people can hope for is to set their sights on being healthy and learn to accept those pounds that don’t want to go away.

              • Pierson says:

                Fair is fair. If this is a case of jokers being jokers, then it’ll invariably blow over, and all will be normal until the next big scandal. I still really don’t know much about Diane, Julian, Heath & co., or too much else, so it’ll have to slide. Overall, this will all be cleared in time, and that’s all I have to say about that

  44. Sarah says:

    So I’m guessing the clowns at Julian Bakery have never heard of the Streisand effect….

    I never bought into the whole low carb bread that tastes like the real thing BS. To me, it’s like vegetarians who eat fake bacon. You’re never going to equal the original, so why try? Bread and all baked goods are my downfall so I just stay away from them. If you don’t eat them, you don’t obsess about them.

    • Tom Naughton says:

      That can certainly be a problem. I’ve found I can have my two slices of gluten-free toast on the weekend without starting to crave bread again, but if I start dreaming of Wonder Bread, I’ll take that as a sign to stop.

  45. DrLaura says:

    Guess what? They’re BACK with a BOGUS “Paleo Bar”. They are touting it as low carb, even though it has 28 carbs per bar. Full of sugar alcohol (which they subtract, along with the fiber, to give you a “net” carb number that is misleading at best). I’m sure the Julian Bakery FB page will be blocking me any moment, as I have posted your blog link in their comments section.
    Last week, I let them have it on the misleading ads for the “new” Paleo Bar, and exposed them on their page for being frauds. I don’t think they even KNOW the “meaning” of Paleo, since processed foods (of any kind) cannot be considered Paleo.
    KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK, Tom!!!

    • Tom Naughton says:

      So lots of sugar alcohol — which, as the Julian people figured out, was an important part of Paleo Man’s diet. And to think the semi-literate Mr. Collins showed up here to accuse me of just being in it for the money.

  46. kathi brunzell says:

    What a shock, I’ve tasted alot of things that weren’t good but good for you…okay, but this bread actually smells foul, and the taste made me instintively spit it out…..44 bucks down the drain..their customer service was as bad…Don’t order it people, it is awful.

    • Alex says:

      I bought a loaf of their paleo bread at the local healthfood store. The taste was not good, and my wife and I were both left with an unpleasant burning sensation in the back of the throat after eating it. I can only shake my head and wonder what the hell would drive someone to market such a horrendously terrible product.

  47. Eric says:

    OK, question for any in the know. I purchased the “sample pack” of the JB Paleo Bars. Honestly, they don’t taste horrible to me but I dig hospital food too. Anyway, I’ve eaten two of them and each one has given me a stomach ache. The ingredients don’t look like anything that would cause that. Any clue? Thanks!

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