Why People Hate Vegans

      112 Comments on Why People Hate Vegans

I’ll start by commenting on the title of this post:  I don’t hate vegans.  The title comes from a headline over a letter posted on another web site.  We’ll come back to that.

I don’t even dislike most vegans.  I suspect most of them are nice people who choose that lifestyle for whatever reason and don’t concern themselves with what other people decide to eat.  Some years ago, Chareva and I went out for breakfast and ran into an actress I knew and her live-in boyfriend.  We decided to get a table for four.   I knew from previous conversations that the actress was a vegan … so imagine my surprise when her boyfriend ordered bacon and eggs.

“Uh … you eat meat?” I asked.

“Yeah, I eat meat.  Why?”

“Oh, I see what you’re asking,” the actress chimed in.  “I’m a vegan.  He’s not.”

Since these two had lived together for a long time and owned a house together, I’m pretty sure she didn’t follow him around accusing him of being a murderer or predicting his demise from all kinds of meat-induced health disasters.  She was a vegan, but clearly not a zealot.  It’s the zealots I can’t stand.

Vegan zealots are the dietary equivalent of religious zealots who show up at your door uninvited and try to convert you, warning you of hell to come if you don’t listen.  They can’t just happily keep to themselves, because they’re convinced the heathens must be saved.  I posted the follow-up section of Fat Head on YouTube last week, and sure enough (as I would have predicted), we’ve now got what the Older Brother refers to as a vegetrollian showing up to preach.

I believe low-carb and/or paleo diets can help people overcome all kinds of health problems.  That’s why I produced Fat Head. That’s why I write blog posts.  I’m happy to provide as much information as I can for anyone who comes here looking for answers – and lots of people have found answers here, judging by the comments and emails I receive.

But in spite of their successes (not to mention mine), I don’t believe everyone has to go on a low-carb diet, I don’t deny that people can become lean and healthy on other kinds of diets, and I sure as heck don’t go trolling vegetarian blogs and web sites trying to convert them and predicting their physical demise if they don’t listen to me.  I’m an advocate, not a zealot.

After some vegan zealots physically attacked Lierre Keith a few years ago, I wrote an essay on my other blog (which I’ve been ignoring lately) comparing them to what philosopher and author Eric Hoffer labeled The True Believer in his book by the same name.  Here’s part of what I wrote:

Hoffer labeled these people the True Believers.  The need to believe in something — completely, and without question — defines their lives, because fanaticism makes them feel special and important.

Not surprisingly, then, the biggest threat to their identities is doubt.  All contrary evidence must be stifled or rationalized out of existence.  All logical inconsistencies in their beliefs must be ignored.  Anyone who doesn’t share their beliefs is an enemy, and anyone who raises questions about their beliefs must be silenced. (But enough about Al Gore.)

Now, doesn’t that description sound just a wee bit like a militant vegan?  Ego boost?  Heck yes … I’m now a morally superior human being because I don’t eat animal products.  Sense of identity?  Gee, do you think?

I once asked a waitress in a restaurant if the pork chops were any good.  Turning up her nose just a bit, she replied, “I wouldn’t know.  I’m a vegan.”  I’m mildly hard of hearing, so at first I thought she said, “I wouldn’t know.  I’m a virgin.”  After some momentary confusion, mentally rifling through my old catechism lessons looking for a prohibition against virgins eating pork, I figured it out.  Either way, it was more than I cared to know about her.  “I’ve never tried them” would’ve sufficed.

And here are some quotes from Hoffer’s book:

A man is likely to mind his own business when it is worth minding. When it is not, he takes his mind off his own meaningless affairs by minding other people’s business.

In order to be effective a doctrine must not be understood, but has to be believed in. We can be absolutely certain only about things we do not understand.

The uncompromising attitude is more indicative of an inner uncertainty than a deep conviction.  The implacable stand is directed more against the doubt within than the assailant without.

In short, True Believers like to stick their noses in other people’s business and never let little annoyances like logic or observable facts shake their beliefs.  As Hoffer wrote, True Believers are impervious to facts.

The True Believer currently trolling the comments section on the video desperately needs to believe that eating animal protein makes people fat and sick.  He also desperately needs to believe that nobody ever got fat or sick on a vegetarian diet.  So he (could be a she, but I’m going with he) simply ignores the actual video, which clearly shows how much leaner I am now than I was in my 30s – when I was a vegetarian.  He also ignores the before-and-after pictures I put in the video.

One of those before-and-after shots is of a reader and occasional commenter named Rae.  Here’s part of what Rae wrote when she sent me those pictures.

I wanted you to know now I’ve lost nearly 80 lbs since Fat Head made me re-think everything I had ever learned about food and nutrition. I wish it had been around 10 years ago so I wouldn’t have wasted my 20s being an obese depressed vegetarian.

An obese vegetarian?  Eighty pounds lighter now after going low-carb?  No, no, no, that doesn’t happen.  Just ask the True Believer.

Other people have left comments like these on the video:

Fat Head the documentary and Gary Taubes changed my life. I went onto a ketogenic diet (Very strict in Carbohydrates, sub 20g a day) and lost over 40 pounds (210 to 170) in three months. The contradictory part is, I did the entire thing from June to September meaning I was not in school, had no work, and literally sat on my ass playing video games 12-13 hours a day.

I’ve lost 80 pounds after watching Fat Head (still trying to lose another 50) and I’m healthier than I’ve ever been. I can’t thank you enough Tom for making Fat Head.

Watched Fat Head on November 12th. Went low carb November 13th. Thank you — 60lbs lost / 70 to go.

Naturally, the vegan True Believer can see these testimonials right there in front of his face and still insist that low-carb diets make people fat and sick.  Tell a vegan True Believer that I was a fat vegetarian and have personally known vegans who had major health problems, and he’ll simply deny that I was ever really a vegetarian.  Same goes for anyone else who claimed to health problems on a vegan or vegetarian diet.  They weren’t really vegetarians or vegans, you see, because if they were, they’d be lean and healthy.  (I guess that explains why Linda McCartney and Davey Jones both lived to a ripe old age.)

I compare vegan zealots to religious zealots because I’m convinced the thought process is basically the same:  Everyone who eats a high-meat diet is committing a sin and must suffer – and all vegans must be lean and healthy as a reward for their virtuousness.  No one gets healthy on a meat-based diet, and no one gets fat or sick from a meat-free diet.  We know this because our vegan bible tells us so.  Scientific evidence to the contrary must be ignored.

Now, back to where I got the title for this post.  When I was logging articles and studies into my new database over the holidays, I came across a post titled See, this is why people hate vegans on a site called PassiveAgressiveNotes.com.  This particular note was written by a recently-converted vegan and left on her roommate’s beside table.  It’s a bit difficult to read on the site, so I’ve reproduced it below with my comments interspersed.

I have to say, I thought you were a lot smarter and considerate than you have proven yourself to be.  You are very well aware that I’ve been getting more and more serious about my veganism, and over the past few weeks I’ve insinuated several times that I feel uncomfortable having animal products in our house.

You became a vegan, so now your roommate has to stop bringing meat into the house?  Couldn’t you have just become an orthodox Jew and demanded she stop buying bacon?

The reason I’ve settled with merely implying these feelings is to avoid an argument, awkward conversation, or irritated note such as this one.

Notes don’t get irritated, tofu-brain.  People do … like when they receive preachy notes from their roommates.

But after seeing your latest haul from the supermarket, I have to be blunt with you.

Oh boy, here comes the sermon …

Yes, I know that we live in a world where we’re all supposed to be “tolerant.”  However, I believe we have to stick up for our beliefs and draw the line somewhere.

Is this where you announce that you’re moving out to stand up for your beliefs?

If you knew that a neighbor of yours was abusing their child, would you turn a blind eye and be “tolerant” of it?  Would you say that your neighbor simply has a different world view than your own?  I doubt it.  Same with me.

Please, feel free to call 911 and report the slaughter of pigs and cows at the nearest slaughterhouse.

I can no longer tolerate seeing meat, eggs, dairy, honey, or any other products from animals in our kitchen or anywhere else in our apartment. Do you understand?

When you try to impose your beliefs on your roommate, you come across like a member of some vegan Hezbollah, even if you underline your sentences to emphasize how important they are. Do you understand?

I’m truly disappointed by your lack of respect for my feelings and morals.  You could at the very least eat these things away from me, like when you’re out of the house.  You could have done it in your room.  That second suggestion isn’t an option anymore, though, since I told you I will not allow these foods anywhere in the house.

Way to demonstrate respect for your roommate’s feelings, tofu-brain.  Sure, I’ll allow you to eat meat – as long as you don’t do it in the house.

Why do you buy so much meat?

Uh … because it’s awesome?

You buy chicken, steaks, ground beef, and tasty “snacks” like Slim Jims, beef jerky, spam, and sardine cans.

Say, is your roommate single by any chance?  Oh, wait … I’m already married.

This is a waste.  I can guarantee that you will not eat even half of these things.

That’s because you won’t let her eat them in the house.

Please think about changing your diet.  I realize that you will probably continue being a meat eater outside of our apartment, but let that small grain of doubt lead you to a better path.  You can still have great-tasting food as a vegan.  You’ll probably want to start slow as a vegetarian and take it from there.

Nice of you to ease her into it gently when you’re demanding she switch to your belief system.

It was a long, passionate letter, but I think the appropriate reply would only require two words.  You can probably guess what they are.

And that’s why people hate vegans.


112 thoughts on “Why People Hate Vegans

  1. hausfrau

    I call them evangelical vegans. I think a lot of vegans purposely confuse grass-based, intensive grazing meat production with the industrial factory farm model. They are completely different systems that produce very different products. Another fun issue that routinely pops up is that they want the government to involve itself in directing people’s diet’s toward “healthier” choices as they see them but they completely ignore the incredible amount of corruption in the FDA/USDA that created the standard american diet we know today. One vegan I was sort of debating lamented how the USDA and FDA are run by big meat and dairy until I pointed out that feed lots would not be profitable without corn and soy subsidies. Any governmetn regulation on the topic will always be inherently corrupt as corporate interests with deep pockets will always control these regulatory agencies in ways that small independent farmers could only dream of. He dropped that topic and moved onto the usual “meat causes cancer” line. Apparently if I dont want to parse and discredit every random study that shows the bad health affects of animal products I have to become vegan. And don’t even try arguing that you have your own reasons for chosing a low carb diet and that you don’t feel the need to justify your choices to anyone because then…….you’re just like big tobacco…….

    That’s one of Eric Hoffer’s criteria for a True Believer: so sure of his plan, he’s willing to force you to adopt it — for your own good, of course.

    1. Tiffany

      The inability to recognize the villainous nature of State power is universal among liberals (whom Vegans are a sub-denomination of), it is because Man is their Christ and the State is their God. It is, in every sense, a secularized religion. I’d prefer people keep their bullshit in Heaven.

      1. dave

        I think that hausfrau is not mentioning the main reason ethical veganism exists – to protect voiceless, defenseless animals from needless death and suffering. The heart of the issue is that as long as non human animals are considered property they will be subject to the whims of the property owners. No?

        1. dave

          Incidentally, I live in “Cow Town”, aka Fort Worth Texas. And interestingly, no one openly hates me for being Vegan even though I make no attempt to hide it or to make excuses for those with whom I disagree. It’s easy and fun to be vegan even in what may be the least vegan friendly city in the US. Seems people are afraid to confront me about it.

        2. chastity roberts

          wow saw this nazi troll coming a mile away dave darling who cares. you dont impress anyone with your moral animal code. I am sick of the nazi left agenda. boo hoo. I live in Santa Barbara CA and I eat meat. I also have pets, rescue etc. shove your mantra up your vegan behind so very sorry for your Texan friends.

        3. Kyle

          Ok I raise farm animals and let me tell you I would trade places with one of them in a heartbeat. Production animals don’t “suffer” they are fed basically candy to them. I would assume so with the way they wolf it down. They never really feel pain (pain leads to injuries and injured meat is discolored and no one will buy it) and they never know that slaughter feels like because they are knocked unconscious before they are killed. True they only live for about a year but still. I would also like to point out that your comment about being considered property is true but that they are property and need to be. Animals have less than the mental equivalency of a small child. And a small child cannot choose for himself anything. He cannot consent to medical procedures he cannot vote etc. so they legally don’t have any rights by your logic. As a small child is essentially the “property” of his parents and or guardians.

  2. Donna

    Marvellous to come across this post. I adopted a ” v…” Lifestyle last year. I feel we’ll on it. I made the catastrophic error of judgement however in thinking that I might meet like minded souls if I joined a local ” v..” Group. God Almighty is the least I can say as to how astonished I was to encounter such a high percentage of nit picky extremists and some quite nasty folk who don’t give much of a thought to their own species. I left the group and have abandoned the “v” word/label although not the lifestyle as it suits me. I’m not interested in converting others etc and all my family and friends bar one are meat eaters and I actually find them more tolerant and maybe more aware of animal welfare issues by and large.I never did go into restaurants and ask what v thing was on the menu ..it’s so easy everywhere just to pick out things that you like to eat ..rice form one dish, mushrooms from another etc.As for honey .. Bees are dying out and it’s a real concern ..we need more bees or there will no pollination and mankind will be done for pdq. ( I eat honey). I am just walking my walk and keeping my own counsel and carefully avoiding labelling myself .

    You’re one of the v’s we like.

    1. Butmunch

      The honey thing is very simple, the more people eat honey the greater the demand will be and thus it will drive the price up. The higher the price the greater the incentive to keep the bee alive. If we stopped eating honey it wouldn’t do shit for the bees. There’d be even less of them.

      Bees aren’t dying out because of human consumption…well at least not because we eat honey, the best answer I came up with is that there is a newer herbicide that came into use a few years back that is causing these problems but nothing has really been done about it.

    2. Anon

      I share your sentiments. I was shocked when several years into being vegan I started joining vegan social groups only to find a cult like extremist mentality and self righteousness. I lasted six years as a strict vegan before many health struggles took their toll. I am pescetarian now for the last year. Health has improved but still paying the price for years of restricting food groups. At least part of why I left was the intolerance and hate exhibited by many vegans. If you didn’t agree 100 percent you weren’t vegan enough. Got sick of the whole game. Like it’s ok to keep pets and that’s not exploitation of animals. Oh yeah, they are “rescues”. Get real.

      1. Tom Naughton Post author

        Veganism does seem to attract the extremist personality, but to be fair, I’ve run into some of those people in the paleo sphere as well.

  3. Firebird

    A lot of vegans cite the environment as a reason to stop eating meat, you know, those methane gases from cow dung are really screwing up the climate. Yet, the rain forests in Central America are being plowed under, damaging an already sensitive ecosystem…to develop soy farms. I. Ron. E.

    The idea that cow farts cause global warming pretty much takes the cake in the Stupid Theories category — and the competition was stiff.

  4. George

    Taysha’s comment about people considering themselves sensitive reminds me of something the comic Billy Connelly said, he was in a bar in a hotel that is also a cigar lounge, he bought a cigar and lit it up next thing you know this woman comes over to him and says in a smug voice would you mind not smoking that thing in here my friend is sensitive to smoke, he looked at her and said you ain’t too “bleepin'” sensitive yourself are you, she had anywhere in the whole hotel to go with her friend but chooses the one place that allows and is set up for people to smoke if they choose, and somehow feels she should have some kind of special treatment because she doesn’t like smoke. Just like our vegan friend.

    Self-righteousness has a way of obliterating simple logic.

  5. David

    I think the vegan lifestyle is stupid! I never fully understand why there are meat substititutes that taste like the real thing even though “we aren’t designed to eat meat because of our teeth not being like a regular carnivore’s” claim, yet the soy gets flavored like it. Or the ones who eat fake butter or non-dairy creamer which is trans fat.

    I’ve never tried to make my burger taste like tofu.

    1. Bolekwa

      It’s a lifestyle choice that someone makes, whether you understand it or not is irrelevant.
      It seems you’ve had a few bad experiences with preachy vegans. We’re not all like that, and guess what, a quick myth buster…most vegans don’t like those flavoured soy products. Their overpriced and ends up tasting like cardboard.

      I understand it’s a lifestyle choice. I also understand that not all vegans are like that. But surely you recognize that quite a few vegans are not only preachy, they expect other people to accommodate their choices, as in the subject of this post.

      1. mm

        Tom, another reason why vegans are preachy, and why liberals think “poor people are stupid”, etc. is also something the Chicago school economist Thomas Sowell theorized about in Intellectuals & Society + other books… they and us share competing visions of the world. The self-righteous liberal (and self-righteous theocrat) has the Utopian Vision; they believe they are the anointed ones fighting the forces of evil, on the side of the angels… because anyone opposing their utopian, idealistic vision of the world is either evil or ignorant. The only reason why we don’t live in a modern-day utopia is exactly because of the reactionary/counter-revolutionary people who disagree and oppose those with the vision of the anointed.

        Opposition to those intellectuals with the Utopian vision doesn’t just make you ignorant; it also makes you morally repugnant in their eyes.

        Libertarianism, and especially logic-based free market economics are based in the constrained vision, or the tragic vision. A way of seeing the world that acknowledges the fact that humans are flawed, elegant theories don’t always translate into elegant results, and that even a room full of very smart, very well-meaning intellectuals aren’t nearly smart enough to tell other people how they should run their lives.

        He wrote about that in “Intellectuals and Society” and then expanded on the theme quite a bit in “The Vision of the Anointed.” Both excellent reads. Well, heck, everything he’s written is an excellent read.

        1. mm

          Combine his concepts with Nietzsche’s slave/master morality (more specifically, how slave morality thinking messes with people), and you’ll understand a lot about political ideologies and society. You should teach these things to your daughters, in addition to getting them a copy of Rich Dad, Poor Dad & Geoff Colvin’s Talent is Overrated…

          Believe me, my daughters are receiving the kid-friendly version of my political and economic beliefs.

          1. mm

            Tom, I recommend/mention Rich Dad Poor Dad by mistake; it seems the author is repeating old platitutes at best and scamming people at worst.
            Get The Millionnaire Next Door instead. It’s a bit outdated on some of its charts and the book is structured strangely, but it’s an excellent book, like the Gary Taubes of millionnaire habits. You probably already have it. I just wanted to de-recommend RDPD for you and your readers.

  6. Kristin

    Wow. Timely post as I’ve been struggling with the onslaught of the True Believers trolling the comments sections of the videos I have enjoyed. It was only last May that I did a lot of soul searching to tweak my whole food diet that seemed like it SHOULD work. But I was still overweight and on blood pressure meds. I watched everything out there from Paleo to Vegan. I eventually worked out that there seemed to be two basic diets that were healing…Paleo and vegan. Well, I’d already tried vegan and was miserable and hungry. I’d never heard of such an outlandish thing as a high saturated fat very low carb diet, but then nothing else had worked.

    I hate to say it but the last bit of info in my decision was that posted comments on videos indicated to me that there were a lot of angry self-righteous vegans out there and I didn’t see the same vitriol from fat-eaters. As a former self-righteous Christian extremist (I’m much better now, thanks for asking) I felt repelled by that energy.

    Now many months later I’m fit, off my BP meds and happy. I’ve lost 30 lbs and am normal weight. I am sure the vegan diet works for some and now I understand better. Dr Gardner’s speech at Stanford on his ATOZ study was illuminating. Some people have the option of various diets. If you are for any reason insulin resistant you need to be low-carb. That is the end of it for me. I just need to find a way to tune out the True Believers. With my background it really is a little upsetting to me. I’m happy to accept that there are people who need to eat differently than I do.

    People sometimes email me to insist they’ve lost weight and feel great on a vegan diet. I tell them if it’s working for them, great, stick with it. Considering that a lot of vegans eliminate sugar, white flour, and processed seed oils from their diets (as Ornish and others recommend), I’d expect them to get healthier if they’re moving away from the junk-filled standard American diet.

  7. Jesrad

    I’ve been wondering lately how much the paleo movement is at risk of falling for the same pitfall. My little family is primal / locarb paleo-ish, we never have sugar, grains and legumes but do enjoy butter, and some cream and cheese at times + the occasional dark chocolate.

    When the nanny reported that, upon her visit to the baker on the way to the library, our 9-month-old son ate an entire chouquette, I asked her not to let him have wheat or sugar again. She said “Well, OK you’re the boss” but I’m still wondering how strictly we, as parents, should go to control his diet – I can’t tell whether he’s gluten intolerant (we both are) and he certainly has no problem with carbs, after all…

    I’m wondering, because I know some people might view this attitude as highly intolerant, just as I would frown upon vegan parents depriving their children of any meat and dairy.

    We try not to be food fascists with our girls. We’ve explained what sugars and flours can do to them. We don’t serve any foods at home containing sugar or grains, with the exception of small amounts of oats in some dishes. But if they’re at a friend’s house during a mealtime, if they’re at a birthday party, etc., they’re free to choose for themselves. If we take them out for a nice dinner and they want to eat a dinner roll, or order the pasta dish, or split a dessert, that’s okay too. It’s not the occasional indulgences that screw up our metabolisms; it’s the chronic abuse. Sara has learned to self-regulate because if she eats, say, a roll and some pasta in the same meal, she gets a bellyache.

  8. Rae

    When people ask me how I lost weight, I say, “You know how I was a vegetarian for a long time?” They get confused and say, “Oh! That’s how you lost weight!” I say, “No, I WAS a vegetarian and became obese. Now I eat pretty much nothing but meat, fish, eggs, and butter”. Then the look of total disbelief. How can I contradict everything they’ve ever learned? That’s when I mention Fat Head or Why We Get Fat, “in case you want to know how it all works”. I became a vegetarian at 12, and I wasn’t fat then. I got fatter and fatter over the next 18 years as a vegetarian (sometimes vegan) – I didn’t understand how it happened to me, because everyone said it was impossible to be a fat vegan! But I was sure I was healthy underneath it all, and just brushed off all my health problems as, well, it would probably be much worse if I ate meat. But now… I feel like I’ve regained my youth. It’s just sad to me that now veganism is hot and trendy, and other people will have to learn the hard way just how “healthy” it is, like I had to.

    Favorite vegan joke:

    Q: How many vegans does it take to change a light bulb?

    A: Vegans can’t change anything.

    LOL. Good one.

  9. Josh

    Hearing vegans talk about all of the evidence that plant based diets are healthy (but they rarely cite a real study, just an ‘expert’) makes think back to my college days and I volunteered at a senior home. I met people in their early 70’s up to a lady who just turned 112! Most were in their 80’s to 90’s and healthy for somebody that age. None of them were vegetarians. They all ate meat. When asked about their longevity, the common answer always seemed to be eat reasonable portions and be active.

    After watching Fathead and thinking about this, I asked myself, ‘Have I ever met an 80 year vegetarian/vegan?’. I don’t think I ever have. That got me to reject Veganism or any other plant based diet/lifestyle.

    Since genetics figures into this, here’s my relevant study population: my maternal grandma — who sometimes appeared to live on an all-ham diet — lived to be 95. My bacon-and-egg lovin’ great-grandfather made it to 101. The only relatives I know of who died of heart-related issues were heavy smokers, heavy drinkers, or both.

  10. Ash Simmonds

    Heh, just a few days ago a mate had a vegan acquaintance sending him stupid propoganda like The China Study and Forks Over Knives, which he forwarded to me for comment. By the time I got to the second response I was already bored of the militant veganism, and just responded thusly:

    “I can’t be arsed dealing with vegans, they are akin to fundamental religion whackos, I know all their propoganda and mythology, they live in a self-righteous delusion, it’s just not worth engaging them because they’ll throw epidemiological studies (like back-counting things you’ve eaten in the past year) to prove their point when it really doesn’t, they have no founding in science – which is what I study.

    My suggestion, smile and nod, and enjoy your steak, let them lead the frustrating life of trying to justify their cognitive dissonance.”

    So yeah, basically the same point.

    I once asked a vegan zealot to please send me the clinical studies showing that meat is bad for you. No observational studies, no silly correlations along the lines of “countries where people eat the most meat also have the highest rates of osteoporosis,” etc. I never got a reply.

  11. Marilyn

    @195okie: The implication being that if everybody became a vegetarian, nobody would die of heart disease? If not heart disease, then what? Oh, I forgot. Nobody’s supposed to ask those questions.

  12. tracker

    I have a couple of friends who are vegan, and they’re pretty cool about it. I had some that weren’t cool about it, and at least one of them unfriended me on facebook. Perhaps my frequent posts about bacon upset them?

    The last straw for one particular friend was this: Their latest thing is that we shouldn’t have pets. Did you hear that study recently about cats killing lots of rodents (as if that’s a bad thing, apparently they’ve never heard of the bubonic plague, but I digress). I just pointed out that in nature, things kill other things, and that this is the natural order. I guess he thought I shouldn’t comment on his post in anyway that supported reality or facts, because he unfriended me LOL. It’s a good way to keep your friend list cleaned out I suppose, to simply state your opinion backed up by facts. The True Believers will dump your arse in a heartbeat =D

    I think most vegans live in cities, and don’t get out in nature much. To them the natural state of man is on pavement under a sky so lit up at night you can’t see the stars. Heh.

    Yup. They’re often people who claim to love nature but understand almost nothing about it.

  13. cTo

    Also, on a more discourse-ive note, I read this interesting article the other day basically talking about how the globalization required for shipping a lot of obscure grains and products that are favored by vegans is often very destructive on multiple levels, likely more so than locally-grown vegetables and meats:


    Interesting point: When I first read the article, the headline was “Can Vegans stomach uncomfortable truth about quinoa?” And now its been changed to “healthy-eaters.” Who wants to bet they got a bunch of vegetrollian backlash for DARING to target a specific dietary group?

    Mono-crop farming is one of the most environmentally destructive practices out there. Compare that damage to the soil-building result of cattle eating grass and then pooping on the fields.

  14. Peggy Holloway

    My brother bought a Brooklyn apartment with his vegan girlfriend. When he decided he wanted to stop “feeling like I wanted to die every afternoon” after several years of going along with the vegan lifestyle and went back to eating meat, fortunately, she was willing to sell him her share of the apartment when she broke up with him and moved out.
    I often say there are basically three types with whom I simply can’t have a reasonable conversation: religious fundamentalists, political conservatives, and vegans. 🙂

    I hope you can have a reasonable conversation with libertarians. We’re so logical, people want to slap us.

  15. Gwen

    It is to laugh.

    When someone gives me the “I wouldn’t know, I’m a vegan” sniff, I don’t tip them. If the manager says “how was everything?”, I ask them “do you really want to know? Last chance before I tell you what I really think. If you don’t want the truth, just say so, and I’ll lie and tell you ‘fine’ and we’ll part happy.” They never tell me to lie, of course, so I very calmly tell them how their server was judgmental of me to my face.

    That’s what that “I wouldn’t know, I’m a vegan” sniff is. It’s not a statement of their beliefs, it’s a criticism of yours. It’s saying “Oh, you’re one of THOSE. I find you unworthy of merit. YOU are a creature-killer, and though I work in a place that serves their flesh, I find you disgusting.” You’re right — simply saying “I don’t know, I haven’t tried them” is sufficient. It says simply that she has no opinion to share about the pork chops. But saying she wouldn’t know because she’s a vegan is saying “but you WOULD know, because you’re a disgusting MEAT KILLER.”

    I don’t go to restaurants to be judged by the staff. I go to restaurants to eat. I consider getting bad attitude to be a detriment to my experience, and complain to the management about it. Sorry if anyone here works at a restaurant, but that’s just what I feel about it. If you are my server at a restaurant, bring me my food, keep my coffee cup filled, bring me my water, and do those things without my having to flag you down and ask you for them, and I’ll be happy as a clam and you’ll get a large tip. Treat me like crap, and I’ll fry your ass for sandwich meat.

    As for the roommate issue… Roommates or apartment mates sometimes think they’re sort of like spouses or family members, and somehow have acquired the right to make diktat or other pronouncements from on high like that lovely bit of vegan nonsense. If I had a roommate or apartment mate pull something like that, I’d just pull down my lower lid, fix her with the ol’ hairy eyeball, and say “do you see anybody in there who CARES?”

    If you’re on the lease, and you have your own room, put masking tape down the middle of the shelves in the fridge and say “keep your hummus and tofu on your side, I’ll keep the bacon on my side. I won’t eat your tofu pups. Don’t you touch my Bubba Burgers or I’ll have your liver with fava beans and a good chianti.”

    I figure a truly dedicated vegan shouldn’t work in a restaurant that serves meat anyway.

  16. Tiffany

    In my experience, anyone I was aware was a Vegan/Vegitarian was a preachy, trendy liberal. I would frankly rather talk to Charles Manson than those witless priests and disciples of leftist chic.

    1. Churchilla

      FYI – I don’t mean to discourage you but; I just found out that Charles Manson was a vegetarian. try vegetariansareevil.com

  17. April W.

    “A meat is only as tasty as the sauce that it’s in. If it had nothing on it, none would eat it.”

    Remember that.

    That’s a cute saying, but completely false. Bacon, sausage, prime rib, t-bones, filets, ham, etc., etc. — very tasty meats that people eat all the time without sauce. Now, if you want to talk about foods no one would eat without adding flavoring, try soy, potatoes, grains.

    (Seriously, when vegans toss around sayings that are easily disproved, all it does is make the vegans look like idiots.)

  18. Bolekwa

    All this ranting and raving. I’m vegan, but don’t preach to anyone, walk around with posters or judge people who eat meat.
    It’s so sad that some people classify all vegans as extremists, much like some people classify all muslims as extremists who plant bombs.
    I follow a vegan lifestyle because it’s a choice I made that I feel comfortable with.

    So you’re the one!

    Seriously, I only respond to the vegan trolls who show up here, which means they do go around preaching and judging.

  19. Morgan

    Do all “religious” people act like vegans? I am religious to some extent, and I keep my beliefs mostly to myself (unless I am asked).

    It is true that there is a special kind of “vegan fanatic” though, and as a previous life-long vegetarian with hypoglycemia (I now have to eat fish) I find these types of vegans very annoying.

  20. Puckishpixie

    Q: How can you tell who’s the vegan at a cocktail party?
    A: Don’t worry, they’ll tell you.

    Ha, too true.

  21. Lizzie

    I was just googling to try to figure out why I end up seeing comments about vegans that are only negative and…quite rude sometimes. Having read this, though, I can see where people are coming from. I’m not one of the preachy people, but I have to say that I’d rather not be immediately classified as a crazy, preachy, hateful person if my diet somehow comes up in a conversation. Gotta say, I end up feeling attacked more than anything else. It must, however, be admitted that there are many preachy vegans out there.

    I had a couple of vegan friends in L.A. who weren’t preachy at all.

  22. stephen

    Vegans are better and deserve superior honor on so many levels. They are protecting the environment, animals and contributing to a better food supply for everyone else.

    Sure 100 years or so ago it was necessary to eat meat for optimal health but this is no longer necessary since we have developed a massive plant food supply readily available to most people. These contain every vitamin, mineral and nutrient at a much lower food production burden to the planet.

    1 acre of land can produce A LOT more plant feed from plant agriculture than if that 1 acre was used for livestock instead. Hence the planet can sustain a much greater number of vegans than meat eaters.

    There are SO MANY reasons why vegans are better than meat eaters if I could just give you three minutes of my time I could blow you away. Regardless of if they have an inflated ego as that is another issue. Becoming a vegan is probably one of the best things you could do for everyone else.

    Vegans deserve respect so bow down fellow meat eater and show it as they have made the ultimate sacrifice for you!

    You could take three minutes, three hours or three days, and you still wouldn’t blow me away. You wouldn’t make a single argument I haven’t heard a hundred times. You all have gotten repetitive and boring beyond belief by this point.

    1. Dr. Avery

      Are you familiar with Poe’s Law?

      To paraphrase, it states that it is impossible to discern satire from sincere extremism.

      Let us examine your first paragraph: “Vegans are better and deserve superior honor on so many levels. They are protecting the environment, animals and contributing to a better food supply for everyone else.”

      A wildly over the top, unsourced and self-aggrandizing claim.

      If I wanted to build a straw man with which to discredit dietary vegetable fetishism, this would be precisely the sort of claim I would lead with. Your position, the placement of your message, and every one of your assertions are patently indefensible. On the other hand, there are enough malnourished and addlebrained Vege-fascists who really believe this way that your post bears an equal likelihood of sincerity.

      Take this argument into account: “Vegans deserve respect so bow down fellow meat eater and show it as they have made the ultimate sacrifice for you!”

      No matter how sincere your feelings are on this matter, you couldn’t possibly believe that anyone is ever going to prostrate themselves to you simply because you eat different things. That is a statement motivated by pure confrontationalist aggression. One of those lower emotions that vegetarians are supposed to have transcended.

      You claim that becoming a vegan is one of the greatest things that a person can do for their fellow human-kind. You’ve really placed yourself on that cross, and now you want someone to recognize your sacrifice.

      The reality is, you have done nothing for anyone except yourself and your sadly inflated ego. You have exempted yourself from taking real action to help humanity, having taken up the ultimate form of slacktivism.


      Years ago, my comedy partner and I discovered the political version of Poe’s Law: just when you think you’ve sufficiently exaggerated the antics of politicians for comic effect, the politicians catch up to the exaggeration.

      1. let me torture

        Rofl you even quoted him saying “fellow meat eaters” and referring to vegans as “they” but remain oblivious to the fact that he was satirizing. You brilliant corpse munchers

  23. chelsea

    Of course people don’t like vegans. Telling people that they are immoral in some way and being critical is going to annoy people. But someone being annoying does not necessarily mean they are wrong. Eating meat is not something that happens inside your mouth and nowhere else. There are thousands of animals at the other end of what is regarded as a personal choice to eat meat, and that is the animals you are eating. Animals are conscious. They have emotions. This is what is suggested by science. An enjoyment of meat is not an entitlement to take another’s life in cases where it is not necessity. There are indeed asshole vegans who are rude, ignorant, and use their views to feel intellectually and morally superior to others. Yet make the distinction: vegans are not the same thing as the existence of animal suffering that comes out of meat production. Every vegan in the world could be an asshole, and it doesn’t mean that the cause they attach themselves to would not genuinely reduce the experience of pain and anguish that animals are experiencing.

  24. Nathan

    This post really strikes a chord with me. Due to some life circumstances I found myself living in a vegetarian household even though I’m not (I’d go out for burgers every now and then).

    After 7 months, I was diagnosed with severe Anemia, and if it gets much worse I could need a transfusion. My doctor told me I now had to eat meat, fish, eggs and fowl every day, effective immediately. It was clear I had to move out but in the meantime, I needed a change at home. My room mate turned me down flat, saying I violated the rules and even though my life was at stake he wouldn’t bend, forcing me to eat out and incur more expenses, which really angered me.

    He then came after me for another month’s rent, claiming improper notice and breaking “the rules.” I was furious. We’ve had two major fights since then. I’ve had to go to the police for emergency counselling and I still cannot eat what I want. He relented on me having cold cuts and boiled eggs but I cannot cook anything. While I’m mad, I’m not going to antagonize him by cooking burgers. Suffice to say I no longer feel safe here and pray that some funding will come through soon so I can get out of here.

    You definitely need a new roommate. He’s a self-centered ass.

  25. PJ

    @Nathan: eat the roommate and both problems are solved.

    Except the one with the police of course.

    (I am kidding. Of course.)

  26. SD

    The only reason why some vegans are preachy is because you are harming the Earth and other organisms who can’t voice their pain to end it. It isn’t like a religion, because religion is very subjective. The torture caused by the dairy, meat, egg, and honey industries is concrete, objective, and palpable.

    They’re just trying to end the torture. They care a lot and people feel like whatever they do needs to be justified regardless of the implications or consequences.

    People will try to make the zealots feel shitty even though the omnivores are doing the shittiest thing there.

    1. Tom Naughton Post author

      If you think farming your soybeans and grains doesn’t harm the earth and kill organisms who can’t voice their pain, well, be happy in your ignorance. But it is ignorance.

  27. Churchilla

    Hello All! – I’ve come across this website because I’ve been searching for people of like mind. I’m taking a Nutrition Course at a community college and the teacher is a militant vegetarian. If she finds out that you want to eat potato chips and are fine with eating meat (and don’t want to make any dietary changes) – she’ll take points off your grade!!!! I’ve never been discriminated against for being an omnivore before. These Vegetarians are not only self-righteous, but I’ve found out that some of them have actually killed people, for the sake of their cause. It’s a scary world out there now. It turns out that Bloomberg, who tried to outlaw the 17 oz. sodas, was a vegetarian. So my advice to everyone, is be on the lookout for the NEW HATE Movement.

    1. The Older Brother

      Welcome — I’d say you’ve come to the right spot. [This is (Tom’s) The Older Brother, sitting in for awhile while Tom wraps up part of a book project.]

      I’d try reporting the teacher to the administration, if you can document it and have anyone else in the class who would back you up. That may or may not work — this idiot may have been hired because they LIKE militant vegetarianism. If you haven’t read it, You may also pick up Lierre Keith’s book, “The Vegetarian Myth.” Outstanding refutation of vegetarianism generally and veganism in particular by someone who spent years as an ultra true believer. It would have a number of terrific points you could torment your perfesser with.

      If you don’t get immediate, emphatic results, go to whatever local newspaper you have with what you’ve documented. Embarrassment is usually a pretty good lever if you’re trying to get bureaucrats to do something.

      Don’t recall many murders for the cause. There was a Vegan couple whose baby died of malnutrition. And of course, the Veggies get to count Hitler among their distinguished alumni, but I don’t think he was doing it for the broccoli.


    2. Bear Dogg

      Oh, and if you dare retort the claims of militant vegans, they accuse YOU of promoting hate speech. I’ve actually seen militant vegans call for their detractors to be arrested for hate crimes.

      1. Tom Naughton Post author

        Some people think any time you disagree with them, it’s hate speech. Then they retreat to a safe space.

  28. Alex

    Vegans are strawmen. I would describe the hatred as having a political nature but I am well aware that there are despised by those on both sides of the political aisle. They are seen as the spitting image of elitism. Part of this is just a leftover from hatred of vegetarians, vegans go well beyond what ordinary people consider reasonable when they eschew literally anything that comes from any animal even a live one. There are the quintessential Animal Rights Activists which to quote Urban Dictionary are: “Bored suburban white kid with waaay too much time on his/her hands. Found in decadent wealthy societies where most people have more food than they need and anthropomorphize their overfed pets. Irrelevant in developing nations or to people who have real life problems to worry about.” If that weren’t enough they frequently proselytize and yammer on about the environmental benefits of ending animal husbandry as if pasture land was suitable to grow crops to begin with and fertilizer magically appeared out of thin air. Basically they are seen as self-righteous pretentious twits.

  29. Bear Dogg

    There’s a conspiracy blog which claims that “militant veganism” is some kind of false-flag operation run by “Big Meat” in order to discredit all vegans and vegetarians. But then again, the same blog also thinks Obama staged the Sandy Hook shootings, Bush staged 9/11, and that Trump is going to stage a terrorist attack to become a dictator.

    The blog also makes ridiculous claims that PETA is secretly funded by Big Meat and engages in their crazy publicity stunts in order to make vegetarians and vegans look like insane lunatics.

    And the blog also makes ridiculous claims that YouTube vegans such as The Unethical Vegam and Freelee the Banana Girl are secretly paid by Monsanto to “act like retards” and push “pro-GMO propaganda” in order to dscredit vegans as “pro-GMO hypocrites”.


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