The Long Knives Are Out For ‘Wheat Belly’

Look as if the grain-industry people have been trolling the internet attempting to trash Wheat Belly, the outstanding new book by Dr. William Davis.  How else do you explain an Amazon review written under the title The David Koresh of Medicine.   Notice that the review doesn’t dispute any of the facts or science presented in Wheat Belly:

The author has no credentials, no credibility, just a small cult of terriby misinformed followers. Don’t be fooled by the high volume screech against wheat and grains.

I have to admit, it didn’t occur to me when I recommended Wheat Belly that Dr. Davis has no credentials.  I assumed being a doctor who’s seen the benefits of a wheat-free diet in thousands of his own patients counted for something.  I also figured that after poring over hundreds of studies on wheat’s health effects and thoroughly researching the history and genetic structure of wheat, Dr. Davis was qualified to write on the topic.

Allegations of “secret ingredients in wheat” to make you eat more, or comparisons to cigerettes. Seriously?!

Apparently the wheat lobby doesn’t require its job applicants to pass a spelling test.  Are cigerettes similar to cigarettes?

Dr. Davis never claimed there are secret ingredients in wheat.  He didn’t (as far as I know) don a Ninja costume or disguise himself as a plumber and break into the headquarters of Wheat , Inc. to pilfer documents.  He simply described, based on published documents, how wheat has been modified during the past 50 years.

For over 8000 years wheat has sustained and grown human kind …

Eight-thousand years ago, humans (some of them, anyway) consumed Einkorn wheat.  The main similarity between Einkorn wheat and today’s mutant wheat is they’re both called “wheat.”  We also call both Thomas Jefferson and Adolph Hitler “humans,” but they produced rather different effects on other humans.  What we ate 8,000 years ago has nothing to with the health consequences of eating a highly modified variety of wheat that’s only been around for the past 50 years.

And wheat didn’t “grow”  humankind.  Wheat shrunk humankind.

… oh and it tastes good when mixed with a little water and yeast.

That explains why nearly every brand of bread includes high fructose corn syrup high on the list of ingredients.

Every nutritionist and serious medical professional will tell you that bread is the most economical and safe source of essential nutrients.

Every one, seriously?  That’s odd … I seem to recall a lot of conversations and interviews with nutritionists and medical professionals who agree wholeheartedly with Dr. Davis — who, despite having a good sense of humor, is a serious medical professional.  So serious that he wrote a book about wheat.

In fact, bread is handed out in natural disasters because it sustains life without food safety issues or requiring refrigeration.

Tell ya what:  if I’m ever starving because a tornado wiped out all the refrigerators within a 50-mile radius, I’ll eat some of the bread FEMA hands out.  But the fact that bread doesn’t require refrigeration doesn’t in any way prove it’s good for us.  Coca-Cola and heroin don’t require refrigeration either.

And now, suddenly it will kill you. Comical!

No, today’s mutant wheat doesn’t kill you suddenly.  It’s more like slow torture.

This book is such a bone headed, misinformed way to just scare people into not eating.

Now wait a minute, Buster!  Dr. Davis is 100% in favor of people eating.  He just doesn’t want them eating a mutant grain product that will make them fat and sick.

As for secret ingredients, humm, apparently the author is ignorant of the food laws that regulate everything that goes into food and on food labels.  Unlike some enforcement agencies, the FDA has some serious teeth behind its enforcement.

Well, that certainly negates all the studies demonstrating the negative effects of wheat that Dr. Davis cited in Wheat Belly.  If the USDA and FDA are on the beat, mutant wheat (which is heavily subsidized by the same government that funds the USDA and FDA) simply has to be safe.  That’s why they conducted all those tests on the stuff to make sure it wouldn’t cause any … no, wait a minute.  Nobody ever conducted tests on mutant wheat to see if it’s fit for human consumption. Okay then, we’ll just have faith the USDA and FDA can tell if a food product is safe by looking at it.  That works for me.

As for frankenwheat, again seriously?! Wheat, due to its ubiquitous presence in the world is treated as sacrosant from any GMO research or development.

I see.  So when wheat went from being a wispy plant that couldn’t be harvested until it was five feet tall to a short, stubby little plant that’s harvested when it’s two feet tall — all in just the past 50 years —  that was a natural mutation, was it?  Boy, evolution works really, really quickly.  I wonder what all those plant geneticists on the Monsanto payroll are doing all day.  They’re probably just sitting around, playing poker and thinking, “Geez, I wish they’d let us develop some kind of hybridized new seeds that the company could patent and then force farmers to buy by threatening to sue them if some of those seeds blow onto their farms and start growing even if the farmers didn’t want the seeds in the first place.”

If you need real, science based information on healthy eating, check out […] and leave this book and its cult in the compound.

I’ll try to read […], but when I searched for […] on Amazon, all that came up was a kids’ book titled “Dot and Dash play Dot-Dot-Dot.”

I was hoping the grain lobby wouldn’t find out about our cult.  For those of you who haven’t been recruited yet, we have a secret handshake that requires a lot of flexibility in the fingers — that keeps out the grain-lobby infiltrators who are suffering from wheat-induced arthritis.  At our meetings, Dr. Davis sacrifices a goat and then we all spend hours enjoying ritual dancing around a bonfire on our pain-free legs.  Sometimes we even dance naked.  It’s not a sexual thing, you understand … we just like showing off our rash-free skins.

I’m sure this campaign by the grain industry will succeed.  Any day now, Dr. Davis will have a conversation with a patient something like this:

“So how do feel after being wheat-free for the past two months?”

“Well, Dr. Davis, I lost 25 pounds, my psoriasis cleared up, my arthritis went away, I’m sleeping better, I’m not depressed anymore, I think more clearly, and I stopped wheezing.”

“Excellent!  So you’ll continue avoiding wheat?”

“Of course not.”

“But—“

“Wheat has been sustaining humans for 8,000 years, Dr. Davis, so it has to be good for us.  Besides, I don’t want to end up spending all day the airport banging on a tambourine and selling flowers to passengers.”

“But I never asked you to– why are you sticking your fingers in your ears?”

“What?”

“I said, WHY ARE YOU STICKING YOUR FINGERS IN YOUR EARS?”

“My de-programmers told me not to listen to you.”

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192 thoughts on “The Long Knives Are Out For ‘Wheat Belly’

  1. David

    “My experience with a tiny amount of wheat is a tiny return of arthritis.”

    I hope you recognize the possibility of that being entirely psychosomatic. Wheat is supposedly killing us all, yet when I was a vegan I used to read such meaningless statements in regards to beef, eggs and milk. Thousands of vegans think they feel great eating tons of wheat, but when they realize a trace amount of milk was in their rye bread suddenly they’re arthritic, bloated and depressed.

    Stephan Guyenet – a real scientist, unlike you, with an interest in truth, not financial gain, unlike you – used to worry he had the same vague problems with wheat. So he conducted a controlled, blinded experiment on himself:

    http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2011/02/my-gluten-free-january.html

    What happened?

    “At the end of the month, I did a blinded wheat challenge using the method I described in a previous post, which uses gluten-free bread as the placebo (1). I recorded my blood sugar at 30 minute intervals after eating the bread, and recorded how I felt physically and emotionally for three days after each challenge.

    The result? I think the bread gave me gas, but that’s about it. I’m not even positive that was due to the wheat. My energy level was good, and I didn’t experience any digestive pain or changes in transit time. There was no significant difference in my blood glucose response between the bread and the gluten-free bread.”

    Until you conduct such an experiment on yourself, it is intellectual dishonesty to use you neurotic complaints as a case against wheat.

    Umm … what exactly is my financial interest in this debate? If somebody owes me a check, I’d like to know.

    It’s not psychosomatic, genius. I didn’t decide wheat would give me pains and then start experiencing them. I noticed, after repeated episodes, that eating wheat caused my arthritis to flare up — and that was when I still believed wheat was good food. But if you’d like to believe the hundreds of patients who reported to Dr. Davis that their arthritis went away after he advised them to give up wheat to manage diabetes — much to his surprise, as you’d know if you actually read the book before critiquing it — were all experiencing the same psychosomatic reaction, be my guest.

    Hey, I’m curious … do you believe the documented quadrupling of the rate of celiac disease in the past 50 years is caused by psychosomatic reactions?

    Reply
  2. Ellen

    Misinformation, it’s the classic tool of most organizations who don’t have a truly beneficial product to sell. Look at drug companies, they are masters at spinning bad data. The grain organizations must be taking lessons.

    Reply
  3. David

    And if people refuse to take Dr. Davis seriously, it isn’t because he has no credentials, it’s because he relies on pathetic science. I think Kurt Harris recently summed it up pretty well:

    “I believe Dr. Davis has diabetes, but I am not sure of which type. So if he looks a liitle metablolic that may be relevant

    This may also explain, but certainly does not excuse, his ridiculous and clinically unsupported hysteria about postprandial hyperglycemia.

    He has actually said that it is a reasonable goal to have ZERO elevation of blood glucose after every meal. Unless you are eating zero carb, this is rare if not physiologically impossible. There is absolutely nothing pathologic about mildly raised BG after a CHO rich meal. This is easily confirmed by spending 15 minutes on pubmed.

    He is scaring the shit out of people by having them monitor blood glucose levels and telling them levels in the 120s are glycating their proteins, etc.

    All this is simply the “fear of hyperinsulinemia of the CIH” squared.

    And I don’t know the current status of his diet recommendations, but a year or so ago he was recommending huge rancid PUFA from nuts in order to limit saturated fat from animals. Bass ackwards, IMO.

    Giant doses of fish oil for high trigs and treating any TSH above 1.5 as “hyperthyroid” in order to correct laboratory values that are “causing” ahterosclerosis is more pseudoscientific nonsense.

    I suppose I will be forced to read this book to see just how bad it is.

    But I suspect it will set back any real arguments against wheat substantially..

    I think drinking milk can make you overeat, but it helps no one to claim milk causes cancer like Loren Cordain still thinks.

    I believe that wheat flour can be minimized in the diet with nothing but beneficial effects, but I don’t get the acid argument.. Is he saying it leaches calcium? Phytic acid binding minerals yes, acid/base no.

    The pissing away your bones thing is nonsense, whether coming from the paleos or the vegans.”

    That was from the comments section on this CarbSanity post, which does a great job questioning Dr. Davis’ poor science:

    http://carbsanity.blogspot.com/2011/09/wheat-belly-on-acid.html#comments

    I once questioned whether I was sensitive to wheat, so I eliminated it for a time. No improvements whatsoever, though I didn’t really have any problems to begin with. Eating wheat as part of my diet I maintain great energy, a good complexion and a lean physique. That’s all I need to know.

    Dr. Davis doesn’t offer the slightest shred of proper science. Just anecdotes from people who he convinced were sensitive to wheat after he improved their health with a low-carb, vegetable oil free, sugar free, junk-food free lifestyle that stresses exercise and numerous supplements.

    You can’t deny his faulty logic and scientific method. I don’t understand how a layman comedian can lefture people on “science for smart people’ and then willingly promote what any real scientist would consider to be bad science.

    Yet another review from someone who clearly hasn’t read the book, or even my review of the book. Wheat Belly does not rely strictly on anecdotes from his medical practice, although those are important. Dr. Davis cites scientific studies throughout.

    Reply
  4. Lynda NZ

    Thank you Tom for again writing the important stuff!! I love that you took this rediculous review apart – you do this very well 🙂 I think you have found a real kindred spirit in Dr Davis and really hope that you can work on some project in the future. Oh and thanks for the laughs as usual – loved the comparison to Coca Cola and herion.

    At the very least, I’m going to ask Dr. Davis to appear in the DVD companion we hope to produce when we get around to that book.

    Reply
  5. Dr. William Davis

    This post on Amazon actually made me laugh!

    I pictured some guy trying to earn his pay for his PR firm, paid for by the wheat trade group, but coming up with little more than “Nah nah nah nah nah!”

    I can’t believe you told them about the goats, Tom!

    If it was a P.R. firm, I feel sorry for the sap given this assignment. Sorry I let the cat out of the bag about our cult rituals.

    Reply
  6. TonyNZ

    “By this time next year, we plan to be eating eggs from our own chickens.”

    Are these refrigerator style chickens to stop your eggs going off? Also, are the eggs printed with nutritional information? If you don’t know how many calories are in that egg you might get fat! Better report you to the USDA just to be safe, you might be involved in harboring non-compliant foodstuffs.

    I may have to report myself for selling a natural –er, I mean an unsafe food.

    Reply
  7. Don in Arkansas

    Even though ‘big wheat’ may be gunning for Dr. Davis it is significant to note that our of 70 reviews (as of this comment) 57 are 5 star and 8 are 4 star reviews. So, 65 out of 70 reviews are extremely positive. If I were an author, I would be very happy with those figures. Personally, no grains, no sugar works for me. To heck with the ‘bread guys’.

    Sure, you can’t put anything before the public without a few nuts showing up to trash you. I learned when I published my first humor articles 25 years ago.

    Reply
  8. Don in Arkansas

    Wait, am I reading this correctly? “At our meetings, Dr. Davis sacrifices a goat and then we all spend hours enjoying ritual dancing around a bonfire on our pain-free legs. Sometimes we even dance naked.” Is there a sign-up sheet? How much are the tickets? A goat? Very low-carb! I’m in!

    You’ll get a secret communique soon.

    Reply
  9. Dana

    “Eight-thousand years ago, humans (some of them, anyway) consumed Einkorn wheat. The main similarity between Einkorn wheat and today’s mutant wheat is they’re both called ‘wheat.'”

    Einkorn wheat damaged people too. Just ask a paleopathologist.

    I think people, including Dr. Davis, are still trying to acquit most high-starch and some high-sugar foods despite evidence they aren’t innocent either, letting modern wheat take the fall for every”one” else. I don’t think this is done out of malice, but rather out of ignorance of how various foods work in the human diet. I share that ignorance; I can only voice my suspicions.

    Dr. Price in the 1930s documented several traditional/indigenous groups’ diets and rates of dental caries alongside their corresponding “modernized” population groups. Today’s Weston A. Price Foundation extolls the virtues of grain foods properly processed with lactic acid. But if you look at Price’s numbers, the traditional group with the highest rates of dental caries was the bread-eating Swiss. Their rate of cavities was still far lower than that of their corresponding modernized group down in the city. I suspect that’s because they were eating protective foods as well, namely grass-fed dairy fat. They adored cheese and butter and ate plenty of both. They probably also ate beef and beef fat, which are also protective. (I need to read that chapter more thoroughly, I’m just guessing based on their general lifestyle.)

    “Paleo diet” followers point to the Kitavans as evidence that they can eat all the potatoes and rice they want if they run off the calories. Well, the Kitavans don’t exactly follow a daily fitness routine. They’re pretty laid-back, actually, aside from the labor they need to perform for subsistence purposes. The thing is, they also eat fish and coconut. If they’re anything like other traditional groups, the leftover bones and heads from that fish are made into fish broth, which is a protective food. Coconut is another protective food, especially the fat. Of course they get away with the starch. They’re nourished enough to fight off its effects.

    I do believe cutting carbs is the single best way to prevent, halt, or cure chronic disease because the effects of carbs, from what I can tell, are twofold:

    One, they undermine your nutritional status, causing your body to malfunction. They do this in a number of ways. For example, your body processing carbs has to burn up its B vitamins in order to get the job done. Certain plant foods mess with your gut lining, which in turn messes up your nutrient absorption. Certain plant foods contain antinutrients which mess up your nutrient absorption as well. And a plant-heavy diet is usually a low-fat diet, or at least a diet-not-high-enough-in-fat, which means your mineral absorption suffers.

    Two, once your underlying nutritional status is messed up, you start seeing the effects on blood sugar and insulin that you yourself documented in Fat Head. Elevated insulin leads to blood pressure elevation and a whole slew of other problems (it also encourages cell growth, so it’s probably implicated in cancer). Elevated glucose has the effect of chemically caramelizing tissues, aging you faster. Along with all the other unpleasant stuff that happens, like heart disease and diabetes.

    I would say to anyone who’s convinced plant foods are always healthy as long as Big Ag and Big Food Industry don’t mess with them: Start thinking of animal foods, particularly the organs, bones, and fat, as healthy again. They are best supportive of your overall health. Vegetables and fruit were seasonal *accompaniments* to meat for people in higher latitudes during our hunter-gatherer days. As for people nearer to the equator, they still weren’t anywhere near vegetarian, and they got lots more sunlight too. I’m pretty sure that mattered, whether or not I can yet explain why.

    My two cents, I suppose someone’s mileage will vary.

    If you read his book or follow his blog, you’ll see that Dr. Davis is no fan of sugar and starch.

    Reply
  10. ValerieH

    Thanks for flagging this stupid comment. I just clicked on “unhelpful” on Amazon. Apparently 132 people have done so 😀

    Reply
  11. Dana

    OH. Someone else’s comment made me think of this. Also? Our dependence on grains as “a vital food staple” leaves us wide open to starvation. A cultural group MUST be sedentary, meaning not nomadic, if they are farming grain. That means they CANNOT travel around looking for food, since the field must be tended and kept safe from raiders. So if the crop fails, they’re dead.

    There’s a reason it’s been claimed over and over that hunter-gatherers did not suffer famine as we understand it today. The same could be said for nomadic herders. When was the last time you saw a charity raising money to send food to Bedouins? Maybe settled Bedouins, but I’ve never seen an effort like that started for the traditional ones.

    And of course now we have this modern risk that some greedy biotech company wants to take control of the grain supply by polluting it with foreign genes. The funny thing about genetically modifying animals is that it’s pretty easy to tell something’s different about them. Usually they look weird and often they behave weirdly too. But you can’t necessarily tell anything’s been done to your plant foods. A lot of the changes are either invisible or they look like the changes wrought in traditional plant breeding.

    Something to think about. I’m not saying never eat plants again, but we need to seriously rethink what we mean when we say “food staple.”

    Indeed. If one of the chickens we plan to raise has three heads, I know not to eat it.

    Reply
  12. John King

    I saw where Greenpeace mowed down a small crop of GM wheat – not a fan of Greenpeace, but this GM wheat was intended to have fewer carbs…and the experts say carbs aren’t bad for you??? Then why modify the wheat? Personally, I find that the best use of wheat is for paper mache’.

    Let’s start a huge paper mache trend so they’ll stop trying to get people to eat the stuff.

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  13. The Older Brother

    I’m guessing maybe vegetrollian or self-appointed (annointed?) nutritional savant instead of wheat industry flack.

    Here’s the same genius (Realfacts2000) in 2009 from a review of a book called “Sugarettes” by Dr. Scott Olsen (a naturopathic doctor) regarding our huge intake and addictive qualities of sugar:

    “With this type of quackery on the market it is no wonder we have an obesity epidemic in this country. Low glycemic index diets are for severe diabetics. For real information on healthy and balanced lifestyles including moderate physical activity go to http://www.mypyramid.gov. ”

    So he may be a paid tout for the USDA, but I’m pretty sure the wheat industry pays well enough to expects their shills to know how to use a spell-checker.

    RF2 seems to be prolific on Amazon — with 242 reviews logged to date — but sadly only seems to amuse himself, as only 12 people have rated one helpful (4.9%).

    Cheers

    Just a dedicated troll, then. I wonder if he’s related to “smelly butt” Kenny?

    Reply
  14. Patricia

    As I posted on the Wheat Belly blog:
    I went in and checked out this guy’s review of other products on Amazon.com. He seems to be an audiophile but reviewed the book “Sugarettes” (in addition to Wheat Belly). He also calls this book quackery and says
    “With this type of quackery on the market it is no wonder we have an obesity epidemic in this country. Low glycemic index diets are for severe diabetics. For real information on healthy and balanced lifestyles including moderate physical activity go to http://www.mypyramid.gov.”
    I’m now rolling on the floor laughing.
    Hey, maybe he can do a review of Good Calories, Bad Calories for us, too!

    Don’t know if this guy is a plant or just an idiot.

    He could just be someone with the IQ of a plant.

    Reply
  15. Laurie D.

    To be fair to the FDA, they are very busy raiding raw milk Amish farmers and couldn’t possibly have the time to investigate wheat, too. There’s only so much one agency can do.

    True. It’s all about priorities.

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  16. David

    “Umm … what exactly is my financial interest in this debate? If somebody owes me a check, I’d like to know.”

    Your entire livelihood depends on this website and the sensationalism you broadcast on it. Every word you write has a financial interest. Not always a bad thing, but I certainly trust people with an actual education and no payroll from their blogs, like Stephan, over you.

    [First off, I don’t make money from this blog, other than some extremely unimpressive checks from Google which barely cover the cost of my ISP’s fees. I make some money selling Fat Head DVDs, and while I’m flattered that you believe the blog and the film are my entire livelihood, the vast majority of my livelihood is derived from my work as a software programmer. I’m active on this blog because I enjoy it. If I closed down the blog and spent the time I currently spend writing on it taking on more software work instead, I’d be better off financially. Software work pays well.

    Second, by your logic, anyone who writes a book about health is suspect, unless he or she is giving the book away. That’s inane.]

    “Yet another review from someone who clearly hasn’t read the book, or even my review of the book. Wheat Belly does not rely strictly on anecdotes from his medical practice, although those are important. Dr. Davis cites scientific studies throughout.”

    I followed his blog for two years and found his poor science inexusable, even borderline negligent. The acid/base balance of foods weakening our bones, disgusting doses of fish oil, a belief that we’re adapted to low-carb eating but animal fat is unhealthy and flaxseed porridge is an optimal food, a belief that any rise in blood sugar above baseline clogs our arteries and glycates our proteins, uncontrolled bullshit self-experimentation on himself. His efforts to make money in every conceivable way, such as the sale of innaccurate vitamin-D and Omega-3/6 ratio kits.

    [Another example of making a fool of yourself by popping off without reading the book. If Dr. Davis was concerned about animal fat before, he isn’t now. Among the foods he lists in the book in the “unlimited” category are meats and cheeses.]

    The vast majority of people he treats make numerous, very significant changes to their diet beyond wheat elimination, yet in his mind it’s those damn mutant grains every time. If he took these people and had them undergo a blinded wheat challenge, like the one Stephan designed, to see if their symptoms return, maybe I’d take his claims seriously.

    [He doesn’t blame wheat alone for our health problems. If you’ve read his blog for two years and don’t realize that, you have problems with reading and comprehension. And plenty of his patients conducted their own wheat challenges. Not wanting to give up wheat, they decided they could get away with a single roll or slice of bread, then felt their arthritis come back. (Yes, I know … all psychosomatic.)]

    The man has spent several years on his blog proving he is a miserable scientist. Why on earth should I read his book?

    [You should read his book because you keep commenting on it and making claims about what it says that simply aren’t true, making quite an ass of yourself in the process. If you don’t want to read the book, fine. If you’re going to critique the book, read it first.]

    Are you saying that his blog IS filled with terrible science, but he turned over a new leaf with this book, so I should give it a chance?

    [No, genius, I’m not saying his blog is filled with terrible science. You are. Once again, you have reading and comprehension problems.]

    If you’ve followed his blog and deny he employs a pathetic scientific method, you’re deluding yourself.

    [I apologize. Clearly I should I get all my health information from some wheat-promoting troll who believes that when I noticed the connection between wheat and my arthritis, it was just a psychosomatic reaction. There’s some solid scientific thinking for you.]

    But you’re right, I shouldn’t critique his book based on the miserable science he’s been spreading on his blog over the years. So my next question is why are you endorsing a man with no scientific sense?

    [Well, let me try to clear it up for you: I don’t endorse books based on your opinions of what constitutes miserable science. To me, anyone who tries to suggest that thousands of people who saw their arthritis disappear after giving up wheat — usually to their great delight and surprise — were all suffering from a psychosomatic aversion to wheat instead of a genuine physiological reaction has no business calling anyone a miserable scientist. Same goes for anyone who insists wheat can’t cause problems for the rest of us because it doesn’t cause problems for Stephan Guyenet. I guess I’d better call my mother-in-law and tell her she’s not actually allergic to walnuts — after all, they don’t cause any problems for me.]

    Reply
  17. David

    “It’s not psychosomatic, genius. I didn’t decide wheat would give me pains and then start experiencing them. I noticed, after repeated episodes, that eating wheat caused my arthritis to flare up — and that was when I still believed wheat was good food.”

    Perhaps you have a sensitivity to wheat, that doesn’t mean it’s inherently toxic. But I’d still like to know the following: If you are gluten sensitive, does that mean gluten originated the sensitivity, or did some other factor initiate the sensitivity? (There are ticks that bite people and leave them deathly allergic to beef.) Were you eating bleached wheat flour? Were you eating artisan wheat with the bare minimum of ingredients? Or was it processed wheat full of rancid vegetable oil and HFCS? Does your self-diagnosed insulin resistance have anything to do with those symptoms after eating such a carb-rich food? Had you at the time any familiarity with the gluten sensitivity hysteria that has always circulated in the health community? Because whether you believed it or not, that would leave the possibility of a psychosomatic reaction. Is your gluten sensitivity dose dependant? Have you done a blinded wheat challenge on yourself to see if it’s all in your head?…You see, these are the question true scientists would ask you, Tom. Hopefully none will attend your maniacal goat roast dance party.

    “But if you’d like to believe the hundreds of patients who reported to Dr. Davis that their arthritis went away after he advised them to give up wheat to manage diabetes — much to his surprise, as you’d know if you actually read the book before critiquing it — were all experiencing the same psychosomatic reaction, be my guest.”

    Once again, I’d like to know how many of those people undertook the full lifestyle changes, because that would leave a list of uncontrolled variables that would rival the longest counting of Pi.

    And every time he told a patient wheat elimination would save their health, he left the possibility of psychosomatic improvements. If you want to dismiss the placebo effect I suggest you go back to the drawing board with your ‘science for smart people’. I’ve read controlled studies on anti-depressants. Sugar pills alleviate depression in over half of them.

    And frankly, I don’t trust a word the man says. Having followed his blog and being well aware of his beliefs and the laughable science he employs, I question whether he is of sound mind.

    Actually, I was just sitting here questioning whether you’re of sound mind myself, since you seem determined to convince us that a phenomenon so many of us discovered independently — wheat causes arthritic pain — is all in our heads. If you read Dr. Davis’ book, you’d already know that he told many of his patients to make exactly one change: stop eating wheat. You’d also know that he didn’t tell them giving up wheat would cure ailments such as arthritis. In fact, for a long time he told patients it was a coincidence when they reported that giving up wheat had caused their arthritis to go away. Then he saw so many cases of that happening, he began to look into how wheat might cause arthritis. But I’m sure Dr. Davis will be devastated to know some troll on my blog doesn’t trust a word he says.

    Does gluten hysteria explain why researchers found that military recruits today are five times more likely to have celiac antibodies in their blood than military recruits from 50 years ago? Yes, that must be it … young men are having these wild psychosomatic reactions to a food they grew up being told was good for them.

    Since I hadn’t heard of the issues surrounding gluten when I made the connection between wheat and my arthritic pains, I’m pretty sure we can rule out gluten hysteria on my part as the cause. But like I said, if you want to believe (for whatever strange reason) we’re all imagining the connection, be my guest. Go enjoy a nice loaf of bread.

    Reply
  18. Lynda NZ

    Thank you Tom for again writing the important stuff!! I love that you took this rediculous review apart – you do this very well 🙂 I think you have found a real kindred spirit in Dr Davis and really hope that you can work on some project in the future. Oh and thanks for the laughs as usual – loved the comparison to Coca Cola and herion.

    At the very least, I’m going to ask Dr. Davis to appear in the DVD companion we hope to produce when we get around to that book.

    Reply
  19. Justin D.

    Tom, it seems you share the same contempt for companies like Monsanto that are fleecing and ruining the lives of many farmers. It’s amazing what government will allow big business to do.

    In all honesty I believe the government should make it mandatory to inform the customer rather or not said food is genetically modified or not, much like how they do it in some European countries.

    Cheers again on another great article.

    -Justin D.

    I have plenty of contempt for Monsanto.

    Reply
  20. Dr. William Davis

    This post on Amazon actually made me laugh!

    I pictured some guy trying to earn his pay for his PR firm, paid for by the wheat trade group, but coming up with little more than “Nah nah nah nah nah!”

    I can’t believe you told them about the goats, Tom!

    If it was a P.R. firm, I feel sorry for the sap given this assignment. Sorry I let the cat out of the bag about our cult rituals.

    Reply
  21. TonyNZ

    “By this time next year, we plan to be eating eggs from our own chickens.”

    Are these refrigerator style chickens to stop your eggs going off? Also, are the eggs printed with nutritional information? If you don’t know how many calories are in that egg you might get fat! Better report you to the USDA just to be safe, you might be involved in harboring non-compliant foodstuffs.

    I may have to report myself for selling a natural –er, I mean an unsafe food.

    Reply
  22. David

    “Hey, I’m curious … do you believe the documented quadrupling of the rate of celiac disease in the past 50 years is caused by psychosomatic reactions?”

    If those statistics are accurate, and not a reflection of increased diagnosis, I can’t explain it.

    [No, it’s not a reflection of increased diagnosis. The researchers tested blood samples for celiac antibodies. Soldiers today are four times more likely to have those antibodies than soldiers from 50 years ago. Then as now, most celiacs were undiagnosed.]

    But I certainly wouldn’t jump to the conclusion that wheat hybridization caused that.

    [Of course you wouldn’t. What kind of crazy person would suggest that altering the genetic structure of the food that’s the primary source of gluten for Americans might be responsible for a four-fold increase in celiac that just happened to perfectly coincide with the introduction of that genetically altered food into the food supply? It’s much more logical to suggest that it’s psychosomatic.]

    I don’t even conclude that gluten was ever the CAUSE of celiac disease. As I mentioned, there are ticks that leave people deathly allergic to beef.

    And if there are 4 times as many celiacs, I guarantee the vast majority would react to Einkhorn as well as your ‘mutant’ wheat. How do you explain that?

    [How would I explain a completely unsubstantiated guarantee on your part? Lack of a logical brain would be my best guess.]

    Chris Masterjohn – another real scientist – wrote a fascinating post which offered several factors beyond gluten that might initiate celiac disease:

    http://blog.cholesterol-and-health.com/2011/04/what-no-one-is-saying-about-zonulin-is.html

    “…it may be that certain types of intestinal dysbiosis (improper balance of bacteria and yeasts in the intestines) prime genetically susceptible individuals to develop celiac in response to gluten.”

    [Yes, a celiac response TO GLUTEN. Are you actually trying to claim that since other factors may involved, that doesn’t mean gluten causes problems for celiacs?!]

    “…another recent study showed that short-term inoculation of rats with E. coli and Shigella enhanced the ability of gluten to cause intestinal damage while inoculation with Bifidus bacteria virtually eliminated gluten’s ability to cause damage.”

    “…This is remarkable because it suggests that celiac is about more than just genes and gluten.”

    [Most diseases are about more than one factor. That in no way minimizes the negative effects of gluten.]

    It’s possible that the increased incidence of celiac disease is due to increases in some other underlying cause of gluten sensitivity. But of course, you aren’t pondering this on your blog. You prefer jumping to conclusions. Sensational conclusions. Sensational conclusions that draw hundreds to your blog, and your Amazon store, and your Google advertisements, and your DVD’s, and ridiculous “Wheat is Murder” t-shirts.

    [Hmmm … could be. Or it could have something to do with the fact that plant geneticists specifically set out to manipulate the gluten in today’s mutant wheat, increasing the overall amount of gluten and altering the sequence of gluten proteins, all because they wanted wheat dough to have more viscosity. But that’s probably just a coincidence. Or a psychosomatic reaction.

    Hundreds? First you state (wrongly) that my livelihood depends entirely on this blog, and then you accuse me of only drawing hundreds of readers? With a financial mind like that, you should go work for the Congressional Budget Office.]

    Reply
  23. Nowhereman

    “I’d better dust off my tambourine!”

    I don’t want a tambourine, I want my very own official Fat Head secret decoder ring! 😛

    It’ll be at the secret drop zone tomorrow at midnight.

    Reply
  24. ValerieH

    Thanks for flagging this stupid comment. I just clicked on “unhelpful” on Amazon. Apparently 132 people have done so 😀

    Reply
  25. The Older Brother

    I’m guessing maybe vegetrollian or self-appointed (annointed?) nutritional savant instead of wheat industry flack.

    Here’s the same genius (Realfacts2000) in 2009 from a review of a book called “Sugarettes” by Dr. Scott Olsen (a naturopathic doctor) regarding our huge intake and addictive qualities of sugar:

    “With this type of quackery on the market it is no wonder we have an obesity epidemic in this country. Low glycemic index diets are for severe diabetics. For real information on healthy and balanced lifestyles including moderate physical activity go to http://www.mypyramid.gov. ”

    So he may be a paid tout for the USDA, but I’m pretty sure the wheat industry pays well enough to expects their shills to know how to use a spell-checker.

    RF2 seems to be prolific on Amazon — with 242 reviews logged to date — but sadly only seems to amuse himself, as only 12 people have rated one helpful (4.9%).

    Cheers

    Just a dedicated troll, then. I wonder if he’s related to “smelly butt” Kenny?

    Reply
  26. Patricia

    As I posted on the Wheat Belly blog:
    I went in and checked out this guy’s review of other products on Amazon.com. He seems to be an audiophile but reviewed the book “Sugarettes” (in addition to Wheat Belly). He also calls this book quackery and says
    “With this type of quackery on the market it is no wonder we have an obesity epidemic in this country. Low glycemic index diets are for severe diabetics. For real information on healthy and balanced lifestyles including moderate physical activity go to http://www.mypyramid.gov.”
    I’m now rolling on the floor laughing.
    Hey, maybe he can do a review of Good Calories, Bad Calories for us, too!

    Don’t know if this guy is a plant or just an idiot.

    He could just be someone with the IQ of a plant.

    Reply
  27. Laurie D.

    To be fair to the FDA, they are very busy raiding raw milk Amish farmers and couldn’t possibly have the time to investigate wheat, too. There’s only so much one agency can do.

    True. It’s all about priorities.

    Reply
  28. Matt McWax

    Don’t worry about spelling Koresh wrong. It was a made-up symbolic name that this so-called savior figure (Vernon Wayne Howell) invented from David (king of the Jews) and Koresh (variant of Cyrus, Persian friend to the Jews).

    I usually cut and paste when I quote other sources to avoid fat-fingering the quotes. I added that part in later and proved once again that I’m a lousy typist. I actually knew the correct spelling for Koresh.

    Reply
  29. David

    “Umm … what exactly is my financial interest in this debate? If somebody owes me a check, I’d like to know.”

    Your entire livelihood depends on this website and the sensationalism you broadcast on it. Every word you write has a financial interest. Not always a bad thing, but I certainly trust people with an actual education and no payroll from their blogs, like Stephan, over you.

    [First off, I don’t make money from this blog, other than some extremely unimpressive checks from Google which barely cover the cost of my ISP’s fees. I make some money selling Fat Head DVDs, and while I’m flattered that you believe the blog and the film are my entire livelihood, the vast majority of my livelihood is derived from my work as a software programmer. I’m active on this blog because I enjoy it. If I closed down the blog and spent the time I currently spend writing on it taking on more software work instead, I’d be better off financially. Software work pays well.

    Second, by your logic, anyone who writes a book about health is suspect, unless he or she is giving the book away. That’s inane.]

    “Yet another review from someone who clearly hasn’t read the book, or even my review of the book. Wheat Belly does not rely strictly on anecdotes from his medical practice, although those are important. Dr. Davis cites scientific studies throughout.”

    I followed his blog for two years and found his poor science inexusable, even borderline negligent. The acid/base balance of foods weakening our bones, disgusting doses of fish oil, a belief that we’re adapted to low-carb eating but animal fat is unhealthy and flaxseed porridge is an optimal food, a belief that any rise in blood sugar above baseline clogs our arteries and glycates our proteins, uncontrolled bullshit self-experimentation on himself. His efforts to make money in every conceivable way, such as the sale of innaccurate vitamin-D and Omega-3/6 ratio kits.

    [Another example of making a fool of yourself by popping off without reading the book. If Dr. Davis was concerned about animal fat before, he isn’t now. Among the foods he lists in the book in the “unlimited” category are meats and cheeses.]

    The vast majority of people he treats make numerous, very significant changes to their diet beyond wheat elimination, yet in his mind it’s those damn mutant grains every time. If he took these people and had them undergo a blinded wheat challenge, like the one Stephan designed, to see if their symptoms return, maybe I’d take his claims seriously.

    [He doesn’t blame wheat alone for our health problems. If you’ve read his blog for two years and don’t realize that, you have problems with reading and comprehension. And plenty of his patients conducted their own wheat challenges. Not wanting to give up wheat, they decided they could get away with a single roll or slice of bread, then felt their arthritis come back. (Yes, I know … all psychosomatic.)]

    The man has spent several years on his blog proving he is a miserable scientist. Why on earth should I read his book?

    [You should read his book because you keep commenting on it and making claims about what it says that simply aren’t true, making quite an ass of yourself in the process. If you don’t want to read the book, fine. If you’re going to critique the book, read it first.]

    Are you saying that his blog IS filled with terrible science, but he turned over a new leaf with this book, so I should give it a chance?

    [No, genius, I’m not saying his blog is filled with terrible science. You are. Once again, you have reading and comprehension problems.]

    If you’ve followed his blog and deny he employs a pathetic scientific method, you’re deluding yourself.

    [I apologize. Clearly I should I get all my health information from some wheat-promoting troll who believes that when I noticed the connection between wheat and my arthritis, it was just a psychosomatic reaction. There’s some solid scientific thinking for you.]

    But you’re right, I shouldn’t critique his book based on the miserable science he’s been spreading on his blog over the years. So my next question is why are you endorsing a man with no scientific sense?

    [Well, let me try to clear it up for you: I don’t endorse books based on your opinions of what constitutes miserable science. To me, anyone who tries to suggest that thousands of people who saw their arthritis disappear after giving up wheat — usually to their great delight and surprise — were all suffering from a psychosomatic aversion to wheat instead of a genuine physiological reaction has no business calling anyone a miserable scientist. Same goes for anyone who insists wheat can’t cause problems for the rest of us because it doesn’t cause problems for Stephan Guyenet. I guess I’d better call my mother-in-law and tell her she’s not actually allergic to walnuts — after all, they don’t cause any problems for me.]

    Reply
  30. DJ

    “Hundreds? First you state (wrongly) that my livelihood depends entirely on this blog, and then you accuse me of only drawing hundreds of readers? With a financial mind like that, you should go work for the Congressional Budget Office.”

    It’s the wheat fogging his thought processes.

    Reply
  31. DJ

    I also love how he criticizes your lack of scientific credentials without providing any of his own. No one ever told him that you don’t have to be a scientist to read studies or comprehend their meanings based on the data they present. You can find a scientist out there willing to support almost any hypothesis… doesn’t mean the hypothesis is correct.

    However, the data speaks for itself. But any data that doesn’t support his hypothesis must be thrown out or somehow discredited. Maybe he’s related to Ancel Keyes?

    He’s just another goofy troll. It’s actually kind of funny that he claims Dr. Davis is a miserable scientist, then makes these strange leaps in logic that would cause even a mediocre scientist to blush.

    Reply
  32. David

    “It’s not psychosomatic, genius. I didn’t decide wheat would give me pains and then start experiencing them. I noticed, after repeated episodes, that eating wheat caused my arthritis to flare up — and that was when I still believed wheat was good food.”

    Perhaps you have a sensitivity to wheat, that doesn’t mean it’s inherently toxic. But I’d still like to know the following: If you are gluten sensitive, does that mean gluten originated the sensitivity, or did some other factor initiate the sensitivity? (There are ticks that bite people and leave them deathly allergic to beef.) Were you eating bleached wheat flour? Were you eating artisan wheat with the bare minimum of ingredients? Or was it processed wheat full of rancid vegetable oil and HFCS? Does your self-diagnosed insulin resistance have anything to do with those symptoms after eating such a carb-rich food? Had you at the time any familiarity with the gluten sensitivity hysteria that has always circulated in the health community? Because whether you believed it or not, that would leave the possibility of a psychosomatic reaction. Is your gluten sensitivity dose dependant? Have you done a blinded wheat challenge on yourself to see if it’s all in your head?…You see, these are the question true scientists would ask you, Tom. Hopefully none will attend your maniacal goat roast dance party.

    “But if you’d like to believe the hundreds of patients who reported to Dr. Davis that their arthritis went away after he advised them to give up wheat to manage diabetes — much to his surprise, as you’d know if you actually read the book before critiquing it — were all experiencing the same psychosomatic reaction, be my guest.”

    Once again, I’d like to know how many of those people undertook the full lifestyle changes, because that would leave a list of uncontrolled variables that would rival the longest counting of Pi.

    And every time he told a patient wheat elimination would save their health, he left the possibility of psychosomatic improvements. If you want to dismiss the placebo effect I suggest you go back to the drawing board with your ‘science for smart people’. I’ve read controlled studies on anti-depressants. Sugar pills alleviate depression in over half of them.

    And frankly, I don’t trust a word the man says. Having followed his blog and being well aware of his beliefs and the laughable science he employs, I question whether he is of sound mind.

    Actually, I was just sitting here questioning whether you’re of sound mind myself, since you seem determined to convince us that a phenomenon so many of us discovered independently — wheat causes arthritic pain — is all in our heads. If you read Dr. Davis’ book, you’d already know that he told many of his patients to make exactly one change: stop eating wheat. You’d also know that he didn’t tell them giving up wheat would cure ailments such as arthritis. In fact, for a long time he told patients it was a coincidence when they reported that giving up wheat had caused their arthritis to go away. Then he saw so many cases of that happening, he began to look into how wheat might cause arthritis. But I’m sure Dr. Davis will be devastated to know some troll on my blog doesn’t trust a word he says.

    Does gluten hysteria explain why researchers found that military recruits today are five times more likely to have celiac antibodies in their blood than military recruits from 50 years ago? Yes, that must be it … young men are having these wild psychosomatic reactions to a food they grew up being told was good for them.

    Since I hadn’t heard of the issues surrounding gluten when I made the connection between wheat and my arthritic pains, I’m pretty sure we can rule out gluten hysteria on my part as the cause. But like I said, if you want to believe (for whatever strange reason) we’re all imagining the connection, be my guest. Go enjoy a nice loaf of bread.

    Reply
  33. Justin D.

    Tom, it seems you share the same contempt for companies like Monsanto that are fleecing and ruining the lives of many farmers. It’s amazing what government will allow big business to do.

    In all honesty I believe the government should make it mandatory to inform the customer rather or not said food is genetically modified or not, much like how they do it in some European countries.

    Cheers again on another great article.

    -Justin D.

    I have plenty of contempt for Monsanto.

    Reply
  34. David

    “Hey, I’m curious … do you believe the documented quadrupling of the rate of celiac disease in the past 50 years is caused by psychosomatic reactions?”

    If those statistics are accurate, and not a reflection of increased diagnosis, I can’t explain it.

    [No, it’s not a reflection of increased diagnosis. The researchers tested blood samples for celiac antibodies. Soldiers today are four times more likely to have those antibodies than soldiers from 50 years ago. Then as now, most celiacs were undiagnosed.]

    But I certainly wouldn’t jump to the conclusion that wheat hybridization caused that.

    [Of course you wouldn’t. What kind of crazy person would suggest that altering the genetic structure of the food that’s the primary source of gluten for Americans might be responsible for a four-fold increase in celiac that just happened to perfectly coincide with the introduction of that genetically altered food into the food supply? It’s much more logical to suggest that it’s psychosomatic.]

    I don’t even conclude that gluten was ever the CAUSE of celiac disease. As I mentioned, there are ticks that leave people deathly allergic to beef.

    And if there are 4 times as many celiacs, I guarantee the vast majority would react to Einkhorn as well as your ‘mutant’ wheat. How do you explain that?

    [How would I explain a completely unsubstantiated guarantee on your part? Lack of a logical brain would be my best guess.]

    Chris Masterjohn – another real scientist – wrote a fascinating post which offered several factors beyond gluten that might initiate celiac disease:

    http://blog.cholesterol-and-health.com/2011/04/what-no-one-is-saying-about-zonulin-is.html

    “…it may be that certain types of intestinal dysbiosis (improper balance of bacteria and yeasts in the intestines) prime genetically susceptible individuals to develop celiac in response to gluten.”

    [Yes, a celiac response TO GLUTEN. Are you actually trying to claim that since other factors may involved, that doesn’t mean gluten causes problems for celiacs?!]

    “…another recent study showed that short-term inoculation of rats with E. coli and Shigella enhanced the ability of gluten to cause intestinal damage while inoculation with Bifidus bacteria virtually eliminated gluten’s ability to cause damage.”

    “…This is remarkable because it suggests that celiac is about more than just genes and gluten.”

    [Most diseases are about more than one factor. That in no way minimizes the negative effects of gluten.]

    It’s possible that the increased incidence of celiac disease is due to increases in some other underlying cause of gluten sensitivity. But of course, you aren’t pondering this on your blog. You prefer jumping to conclusions. Sensational conclusions. Sensational conclusions that draw hundreds to your blog, and your Amazon store, and your Google advertisements, and your DVD’s, and ridiculous “Wheat is Murder” t-shirts.

    [Hmmm … could be. Or it could have something to do with the fact that plant geneticists specifically set out to manipulate the gluten in today’s mutant wheat, increasing the overall amount of gluten and altering the sequence of gluten proteins, all because they wanted wheat dough to have more viscosity. But that’s probably just a coincidence. Or a psychosomatic reaction.

    Hundreds? First you state (wrongly) that my livelihood depends entirely on this blog, and then you accuse me of only drawing hundreds of readers? With a financial mind like that, you should go work for the Congressional Budget Office.]

    Reply
  35. Ron K.

    One of the best ways to deal with arthritis is with tart cherry. Many studies have been done on tart cherry’s effect on arthritis and it has shown good results. It might be worth trying, it works for me.

    Reply
  36. Sid Mannluv

    From my own personal experience cutting out wheat has been the best thing I have done for my health (next to sugar). I spent the last three months not eating wheat, then on monday I had some pizza and felt completely bogged down. It took a few days to regain my energy and overall vigor. I honestly wish I had not eaten any pizza. I think the only way people are going to be able to buy into the whole omission of grain from the diet is to try it for 2-4 weeks and then revert back just to see for themselves the difference. There is so much junk nutrition out there that people have been raised on, that to most a new book about this, that and the other can come across as just another sensation.

    I listened to Dr.Davis on the Underground Wellness podcast the other week and I must say I was very impressed with his experience and knowledge. He was very pleasant to listen to and full of first hand experience in dealing with patients who have made complete health reversals by cutting out wheat.

    I really wish the USDA, FDA, and or the AHA would get their rears in gear and make some kind of change. For once support real science and back someone like Dr. Davis who is willing to make a bold stand for people’s health. I was looking at a bag of low fat Ruffles, because on the front it said “always uses heart healthy oils”. So being curious I looked on the back and saw it’s cooked in Sunflower, corn and or canola oil. But groups like the ones mentioned will support that and people believe it without question. But yet they turn around and attack someone who is willing to challenge and back it up with solid logic and evidence. In all honesty I think that the nutrition you, myself and others support will stay fringe until someone major backs it.

    According to certain wheat-promoting trolls, what you experienced after eating the pizza was merely a psychosomatic reaction prompted by an irrational fear of wheat planted in your brain by Dr. Davis. That’s one theory. The sane theory is that you don’t tolerate wheat very well.

    Reply
  37. Nowhereman

    “I’d better dust off my tambourine!”

    I don’t want a tambourine, I want my very own official Fat Head secret decoder ring! 😛

    It’ll be at the secret drop zone tomorrow at midnight.

    Reply
  38. bec

    It’s known as Muphry’s Law, Tom – the odds of making a spelling error on the internet are increased if you are making fun of someone else’s spelling or grammar.

    Reply
  39. kem

    I think big wheat might know how easy it is to forgo their product.

    And I am pleased we have kept gmo’s out of our little islands (nz). Not sure I’d like to be beholden to Monsanto next time I drill a paddock.

    I’m sure they’re scheming on a ways to get to your island eventually.

    Reply
  40. Matt McWax

    Don’t worry about spelling Koresh wrong. It was a made-up symbolic name that this so-called savior figure (Vernon Wayne Howell) invented from David (king of the Jews) and Koresh (variant of Cyrus, Persian friend to the Jews).

    I usually cut and paste when I quote other sources to avoid fat-fingering the quotes. I added that part in later and proved once again that I’m a lousy typist. I actually knew the correct spelling for Koresh.

    Reply
  41. DJ

    “Hundreds? First you state (wrongly) that my livelihood depends entirely on this blog, and then you accuse me of only drawing hundreds of readers? With a financial mind like that, you should go work for the Congressional Budget Office.”

    It’s the wheat fogging his thought processes.

    Reply
  42. DJ

    I also love how he criticizes your lack of scientific credentials without providing any of his own. No one ever told him that you don’t have to be a scientist to read studies or comprehend their meanings based on the data they present. You can find a scientist out there willing to support almost any hypothesis… doesn’t mean the hypothesis is correct.

    However, the data speaks for itself. But any data that doesn’t support his hypothesis must be thrown out or somehow discredited. Maybe he’s related to Ancel Keyes?

    He’s just another goofy troll. It’s actually kind of funny that he claims Dr. Davis is a miserable scientist, then makes these strange leaps in logic that would cause even a mediocre scientist to blush.

    Reply
  43. Ron K.

    One of the best ways to deal with arthritis is with tart cherry. Many studies have been done on tart cherry’s effect on arthritis and it has shown good results. It might be worth trying, it works for me.

    Reply

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